Defending the Hybrid Flag

Ah yes. Welcome to the club!

The last gasoline vehicle that I purchased before the Prius was a $40k Volvo that got about 24mpg on a good day. NOBODY questioned that purchase. Nobody wondered if the "Volvo Premium" would be paid back in a short time. Nobody asked if the mileage I was getting was as good as advertised.

Then I bought a Prius. Suddenly, 50mpg isn't good enough. $28k was too much to spend. I'd never make back the "premium" in my gasoline savings. What the hell gives?

And I see in the thread you linked to that most anti-hybrid folks believe that this is ALL about money. That if you don't make X amount of gasoline dollar savings, that "saving the environment" is not worth it. Sad.

 

why do people buy a car with an automatic transmission, which is so much more complex and prone to failure and much more expensive at purchase time and tends to get slightly *lower* FE than a manual? there are NO measurable benefits above and beyond the convenience factor.

because it's convenient! it doesn't pay for itself. because people don't wanna drive with 2 feet, worry about the shift points, drive with one hand on the wheel and one on the shifter. (or learn how to drive stick...)

oooooooh. sounds a lot more lame than the reasons for spending (in my case, about the same) amount of money on a hybrid vs a non hybrid.

you learn to roll your eyes and flatly list off the real facts, then walk away.

 

I'm not through my first fillup yet. I put $AU 40 in the tank and I still show 1/3 full with almost 550 Km travelled. I thought more about rising fuel prices than recovering the higher cost of the vehicle through fuel savings. So far everyone has been really curious about the car rather than skeptical but I'm sure I'll meet one eventually. By then I will have some solid figures to quote and I'll shut 'em down! :lol:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ Aug 7 2006, 11:05 PM) [snapback]299462[/snapback]</div>

Actually, on many cars, it is easier now to meet emissions requirements with an automatic. With the computerized controls and other advanced designs, many people people can end up getting better FE with an auto in a given car over a stick. Been this way for awhile... I recall a freind of mine buying his dodge van out of state years back because he wanted the manual transmission. It was not avialable with the manual tranny in CA because it wouldn't meet the state's smog requirements.

And why shift when you don't have to?

Why have air conditioning? Little sweat never hurt anyone. Builds character, ya know!

 

It has been different for me. I am in a Pickup world, a lot out of necessity (Prius wouldn't tow a tractor or disc too well) and the bigger the better but I have had most people say "I want to try out the Hybrid pickups or Hybrid Lexus, etc...". Some say something about the cost and recouping but after they sit in the car and see all the extras that are included they see that it is a neat car on its own right. The added benefit is the environmental and mileage. Been cool to hear the positive direction. People are really feeling the heat, pun intended for Colorado Desert summers, of energy costs and I really think that Hybrids, Ethanol and other sources of energy will have a very receptive audience...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ Aug 7 2006, 09:05 PM) [snapback]299462[/snapback]</div>

In the case of the Prius, the "automatic transmission" isn't what you think it is from your traditional ICE powered car. It is an incredibly simple device, conceptually, which uses a planetary gearset, the ICE and the two electric drive motors to deliver power with maximum efficiency. The best description of the Synergy drive system "transmission" I've come across to date is at
http://www.ecrostech.com/prius/original/PriusFrames.htm
in the "Understanding the Prius" section.

A direct link to just the ECVT drive system's operation is
http://www.ecrostech.com/prius/original/Un...ransmission.htm

There is certainly benefit from this unique and exceptional power delivery design. It's remarkable for its simplicity, cleverness, and elegance. And the efficiency it allows.

Godfrey

 

Wow you've been busy... That Larry guy really has a burr in his rear for hybrids. I think some of them had valid arguments which I think you stated also. No one mentioned that you cant get rear seat side air bags in a Corolla or Yaris. I totally agree with you about not comparing the Prius to the Corolla or Yaris, totally different class (I should know I own a Prius and a Corolla). Well good work

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godfrey DiGiorgi @ Aug 7 2006, 11:36 PM) [snapback]299514[/snapback]</div>

Ya, good job telling that to the wife of a Prius tech. :lol:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godfrey DiGiorgi @ Aug 8 2006, 01:36 AM) [snapback]299514[/snapback]</div>

Hey! What about these prius-psd_details and hybrid-type_full_operation ?

Just kidding. Graham's stuff is great! It was the inspiration for countless enthusiasts, including me. And despite the fact that his posts online are rare and his stuff is so old, it was so well written that it still gets referred to many years later anyway. That's pretty darn impressive. So he desires credit for that accomplishment.

Anywho, you may find those two other documents helpful. They were intentionally created to serve a different purpose... keeping the language simple, avoiding most technical details, and in a format intended for printing.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(NuShrike @ Aug 8 2006, 04:52 AM) [snapback]299534[/snapback]</div>

Yeah. . . no kidding. . .

You might be a Rookie Prius Poster if. . . you explain the CVT to galaxee.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Betelgeuse @ Aug 8 2006, 06:55 AM) [snapback]299544[/snapback]</div>

and here i was sitting here having a wonderful day at work. then i see that and start laughing so hard my boss comes over to see what's up. Now i really do have to work. no offense intended, Godfrey DiGiorgi, it was still a great post with useful information in it for anyone who hasn't been around a while.

 

:lol:

aww, guys, he was just trying to be helpful.

for the record, Godfrey, I was referring to the conventional auto tranny, not a cvt.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Curtis SAC @ Aug 8 2006, 02:13 AM) [snapback]299510[/snapback]</div>

ok, i can see that, at least for people who don't know enough about cars to understand how to best use a manual shifter.

my point exactly. it's something people pay for in the name of convenience. but it's not gonna pay for itself over x number of miles.

 

There are only two things Prius hata's need to know:

1. Your foot,

2. Their arse,

...and the relationship of 1 to 2. :angry:

 

around here, hybrid skeptism has disappeared long ago. this area has an advantage in that that all the governments, because of state mandates, are going to alternative fuel vehicle options and the Prius leads the way by a long shot.

this gives more exposure to people who would normally probably never have considered one. often, i will take a walk around the neighborhood where i work to walk off the drowsiness that lunch can bring. i will walk past hundreds of Priuses in just a few blocks, 80% fleet vehicles with the state exempt tags on them.

where i work, hybrid POV's are slim for 700 employees at 3 Priuses, one insight and one Lexus hybrid. next door the dept of health has about 10-15 fleet vehicles and at last count has nearly 2 dozen POV's all Priuses with one Civic up from zero from an informal parking lot survey just over a year ago,

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(john1701a @ Aug 8 2006, 04:22 AM) [snapback]299542[/snapback]</div>

heya John,

Yes, I happened upon your pages a little while after I posted last evening. Very nicely done and less daunting for the non-technical reader. Good job!

many thanks
Godfrey
--- soon to be Prius owner ---

 

I have a feeling this current oil pipeline issue is going to shut a lot of mouths. Even if it isn't as serious as it is portrayed, it doesn't matter. Gas companies have already started jacking up their prices in response. So people will feel it no matter what.

Unfortunately my Prius is 2 or 3 weeks away.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ekpolk @ Aug 7 2006, 10:18 PM) [snapback]299444[/snapback]</div>

Wow ekpolk, you were really kicking their asses on that board. Good Job!

 

Maybe we need to get our own Prius "flag" as you put it. We could get little ones that we stick in our windows while we drive, no wait, that could hurt our MPG..... Hmmm....

Still need a flag if you ask me. Maybe something sharp that we can drive through the hearts of SUV owners everywhere!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ekpolk @ Aug 7 2006, 11:18 PM) [snapback]299444[/snapback]</div>

Hans did not hold back any floods.