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Death Valley lake

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by bwilson4web, Feb 21, 2024.

  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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  2. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Badwater & surrounding area does periodically get enough rainfall to allow for kayaking but it dries quickly due to Heat ... so hot it allows for several feet of evaporation according to wiki.
    We used to run dirt bikes in the area early (Hodaka 125cc)1970's.
    But not if it was a El Nino year. BTW ... El Nino is a phrase that was used as early as the late 1800s. That's a lot of years since man-made global warming
    ;)
    .
     
  3. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    Kinda makes me wonder how recently the Badwater Basin was named.......and why.

    Unfortunately.....
    The emergency drought proclamation is still in effect: Governor Newsom's March 24, 2023, Executive Order (N-5-23), which reduced emergency drought requirements, did not immediately terminate State Water Board (Board) water conservation emergency regulations.Dec 26, 2023
     
  4. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Where the winds blow matters to where the water ends up. Higher average air temperatures means more of it never comes back down.
     
  5. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    The evaporated water simply falls as precipitation somewhere else. Hundred year floods anyone?

    Bob Wilson
     
  6. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    I’m blaming the chilly weather in Florida on climate change too
     
  7. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    Sure would be a fun place to have a boat party this time of year...

    upload_2024-2-21_12-7-39.png
     
  8. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    iirc - over 200' below sea level
     
  9. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Make that the 1600s.

    I'm not aware of El Niño being attributed to human-made global warming or climate change, other than possibly to a single child deity. It is just one of numerous natural cycles superimposed on top of any alleged human-made climate change.
     
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  10. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Bad-Basin naming and other tidbits are here:

    Badwater Basin (U.S. National Park Service)

    This is at least the third 'lake fill' in 20 years but I don't have long-term records on that. NPS does I suppose. This one is of unusually long duration. Started with Hurricane Hilary's after party last summer. Was still wet when recent sequence of atmospheric rivers arrived.

    Every time Death Valley (along with other desert areas) gets wet, following spring has floral superbloom during March/April/May. This one will be impressive. Maybe plan a trip? (NPS says it's too soon to predict a spring superbloom but I disagree ;) )

    Never been done (to my knowledge): beekeepers truck in some hives and produce rare superbloom honey as boutique product. Maybe NPS would object, but deserts elsewhere are large (and the mountains are high and the emperor is far away).

    ==
    "We used to run dirt bikes in the area early (Hodaka 125cc)1970's." No longer legal.

    ==
    Climate change has many effects that rise above "alleged", but flooding to DV or Calif. in general are not there presently. Great Flood of 1862 was a much larger sequence of atmospheric rivers. There have been other notable floods since; 1928, 1964, 1997 show up immediately. I do not quickly find Calif weather records earlier than 1862, but assembling all that would (I expect) fail to support hypothesis of secular increase in Calif (or subset) extreme rainfalls.

    Examine at global scale and things begin to show up. More rainfall extremes:

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41612-021-00202-w

    and more extreme droughts:

    https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/19475705.2020.1730452

    Obviously these happen in different places.

    Warmer ocean surface water -> more evaporation -> more rain -> but that does not tell you where it's gon na fall.

    ==
    Enough? as you can tell I luv this topics to bits.
     
  11. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    A few quick floods across semi-impermeable surfaces, don't do much to refill pump-depleted underground aquifers. Especially when the floods are quickly channeled to the ocean without being impounded for any meaningful time to soak in as groundwater. While endorheic basins such as Death Valley do impound their flood waters, I've understood that it seeps through the salty hardpans comparatively slowly, with a larger portion evaporating.

    Many areas normally depend on deep winter snowpacks upstream to store water for many months later. Heavy warm rains from atmospheric rivers don't store in the mountains as well, even removing much earlier snow.

    So drought conditions can persist through a significant number of these events.
     
  12. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    We should soon have status of Calif surface water impoundments. We should soon have status of Calif ground-water well levels. This year mountain snow melt is large, and by May it it will have descended as liquid. I'd say that Calif is water rich now. I'd not say that Calif should now discard all water-conservation policies. See how the next 3 year of inputs go.
     
  13. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    One of the more credible facets of the Climate Industrial Complex is aquifer depletion, or more properly put - a non cyclical reduction is what we perceive as 'normal' aquifer levels.
    Unlike most aspects of the climate is weather, weather is climate morasse, most of the anthropogenic component of these changes are not being inflated "$cientifically" for fear, fun, or profit.
    As it turns out, if you cram 18 million people into three counties featuring a Mediterranean-type ecosystem - um.....WATER can be an issue.
    Especially when people import great quantities of outdoor plants not normally found in a Mediterranean-type ecosystem......because they had lush green yards and farms back in Pennsylvania.

    As they say out west.....'whiskey is for drinkin' water is for fighting!'
     
    #13 ETC(SS), Feb 22, 2024
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2024
  14. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    The areas with Mediterranean climates are hydrologically linked to areas with temperate montane climates. First by rivers and later by systems of reservoirs and canals. It is possible to be impressed by all that.

    Mediterranean climates may be inadequate description of (parts of) Calif. as well. Because those areas face Pacific Ocean which produces atmospheric rivers from time to time. Does not happen in Mediterranean (real place source of name).

    Landscaped yards do stick out as inappropriate to many, but they take a small fraction of Calif. water. It's AG; a massive profit source.

    ==
    Friend in high school had a old set of encyclopedias that revealed the largest economic product of state was almonds. There was such a time.

    ==
    Why imagine climate/weather as a morass? It isn't.
     
  15. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    Few say so....
     
  16. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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  17. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    Some agricultural areas in California have dropped in elevation by as much as 10 meters due to groundwater over use. Understanding water use in California and the disaster they're heading towards is all about unsustainable groundwater use and also how the nut growers built an empire on hedge fund investments that have, as expected, turned into bankruptcy soon as almond prices dropped: Nine years ago, I was right | On the public record

    Also this guy on Tiktok is doing in depth coverage of Death Valley Lake. Today he put on waders and walked for a 1/2 hour out in to the middle of the lake to get some footage: https://www.tiktok.com/@casinocompwallet
     
  18. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    Sometimes I wonder what policy is less virtuous.
    Information blocking or disinformation.

    I do not know much about California Big Ag.
    I do have kinfolk living behind the Tinsel Curtain, but I live on free soil in a state that has rainfall more suited to our population density.

    I remember that the 'Golden State' used to have lots and lots of flower farms, and they still represent more than 3/4 of the domestic cut-flower industry hereabouts - HOWEVER (comma!)
    That industry was eviscerated by NAFTA and the fact that flowers ain't food.

    NOW, most of the cut flowers that are purchased in America are grown out of country.
    That left a lot of farmland that was 'repurposed' for hemp production - which is NOW California's #1 cash crop.

    Heck......SOME of the farms are even LEGAL.
    California’s Illicit Marijuana Is Making Water Shortages Worse - Bloomberg