Crisis in Mid-East Escalates...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ Jul 13 2006, 10:12 PM) [snapback]285994[/snapback]</div>

Too easy to say. Human suffering, war, bombings, killings...it is all so....so....pointless!!!!!! You are wrong about the "60 years" This has been going on for 6000 years.

O' God, that you have some plan, I accept. What keeps me sane in this madness is your blessed hope and promise of a better existence. Until that time, I soldier on, trying to bring some peace and compassion to my little corner of the world. Give me the strength to arise victorious in the face...the awful face...of EVIL in our time. Amen!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ Jul 13 2006, 10:12 PM) [snapback]285994[/snapback]</div>

You hit the nail on the head. The reason for the continued conflict over the past half century there has been the inability for the conflict to be settled - the world has never let the victor claim a clear and decisive victory. Each and every conflict there has been terminated too early by "world pressure". Imagine if we did not knock the Nazi's out or the Japanese out or the Confederacy? What if we let them breath and regain more strength time after time? Well that is what has happened in the Middle East.

Israel withdrew from Lebanon in 2000 in return for "peace". What did it get? It got a neighbor who wants war.

Israel withdrew from Gaza in return for "peace". What did it get? It got the Palestinians to elect a government whose goal is the destruction of the State of Israel - it got over 1,000 Kassam rockets launched into israeli towns, it got invaded two weeks ago there with two soldiers killed and 1 kidnapped.

And do not forget that all of this is being controlled by Iran and Syria.

So what now. Easy. Time to take out Hezbollah - forever. Empower the Lebonese who do not like Hezbollah to ban them from re-establishing themselves afterwards. Clean up Lebanon. Gaza will take more time and will probably be approached like a vine - kill its roots or its support system at the same time as keeping the military pressure on them. Iran as to go - sooner or later - sooner better. Imagine if they had a nuke?? With Iran gone Syria has no where to go. Done. Almost too simple.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Jul 14 2006, 09:58 AM) [snapback]286179[/snapback]</div>

Where does Saudi Arabia fit into this?

Would fighting over who controls the price of oil have any relevance?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ Jul 13 2006, 07:12 PM) [snapback]285994[/snapback]</div>

Sigh, in one iteration or another it has been ongoing for over 2500years...


I do not even listen to the news anymore..

btw: did anyone notice that the UN is again condemning Israel?

 

Isreal is hitting back in an impressive self controlled fashion. I don't remember hamas telling the isrealies to getin the bomb shelters, we're gonna blow some stuff up..

It would be a hard call to be in charge on the isreal side. Dropping in a grid layout of daisy cutters in that area would be mighty tempting... Make a nice big parking lot inside of about 3 hours..

It would be nice to think if any country attacked the USA in an act of war or aggression that we'd take totally to war to eliminate the enemy aggressor. I'm not so sure in this day and age that we would.

I think Isreal should 'put on the wood' until those soldiers are returned.

Hit 'em hard, and hit 'em often.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hyo silver @ Jul 14 2006, 10:17 AM) [snapback]286209[/snapback]</div>

The Saudis are our friends. They would never do anything to hurt us or our friends.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hyo silver @ Jul 14 2006, 08:17 AM) [snapback]286209[/snapback]</div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(burritos @ Jul 14 2006, 10:44 AM) [snapback]286281[/snapback]</div>

I can't tell if you guys are being facetious, ignorant, or asking a legitimate question, SO:

Saudi Arabia blames Hizbollah in Lebanon crisis

RIYADH (Reuters) - Saudi Arabia on Thursday blamed "elements" inside Lebanon for the violence with Israel, in unusually frank language directed at guerrilla group Hizbollah and its Iranian backers.

"A distinction must be made between legitimate resistance and uncalculated adventures undertaken by elements inside (Lebanon) and those behind them without recourse to the legal authorities and consulting and coordinating with Arab nations," a statement carried by the official news agency SPA said.

"These elements should bear the responsibility for their irresponsible actions and they alone should end the crisis they have created."
http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=1024752006

Nice to see that this isn't being portrayed as a anit-Islam thing, and that some Arab countries can call it for what it is.
Unfortunately, the good people in Lebanon are being dragged into this mess.

 

"Final Solution" to continuing Mid-East crises is to unleash Israel. Within two weeks they would control Lebanon, Syria, Saudi Arabia, and Iran using all means available including their massive armor, super figher aircraft, long range missles and bombers, and mechanized infantry. Simultaneous nuclear attacks on all electrical-chemical-atomic energy sites in Iran, and with their nucler-tipped bunker-busting bombs, disintegrate Iran's underground facilities. With the conquest of these areas as part of Greater Israel, then by joint resolution of Congress admit Israel with all its additional territory and resources as the 51st state in the USA!

 

Palestinians would, rather hopelessly and ironically, see Israeli wipe them off the face of the Earth rather than live their hells (and I am NOT referring to Martyrdom).

I am going to show you all the Palestinian side of the story, since it is the untold one:

"Look Into My Eyes" - Outlandish (a message from Palestinians to Americans)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=18...4692610872111&q

Lyrics:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2...1358173,00.html

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060715/ap_on_...HNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

They will perhaps lie to prove their point (remember the Beach shelling incident?). The morales of the IDF are no better than the terrorists'.... because the IDF is a terrorist organization.

 

The rest of the world is ready to give palestine whatever they want for free forever if they will just live on their side of the fence and not kill the people on the other side of the fence.

You probably live in a house. If your neighbor kept running on to your yard, lighting the corner of your house on fire, killing your dog and then running home, what would you do?

Build a fence?

Build a taller stronger fence with a gate?

Post a warning... Any neighbor caught firing rockets into my yard will be shot?

At some point, you stop letting the neighbor onto your lot to damage your house and kill your dog or chickens.

If it persists, you ramp it up.

Now, the neighbor rammed a hole in your fence and took your 3 year old daughter.

Gloves are off, hammer is coming down. It's apparent the law (UN and rest of the world) have said how this should go, yet the offense keeps happening. Your daughter is captured, you handle it...

I think this thing will settle down in a week or two and then Isreal will regret not having hit a bit harder.
Literally knock them back about 50 years. Give them something to do for the next 10 or 20, they can rebuild.

 

LOL Daron... READ about the history of the region! Your arguments works better for the Palestinians (at least from 1948... I don't know the going ons in history much farther back). Go educate yourself.

"A Peace to End All Peace"

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/080506884...5784168?ie=UTF8

"Records of Dispossession : Palestinian Refugee Property and the Arab-Israeli Conflict"

"In 1948, during the first Arab-Israeli war, 726,000 Palestinian Arabs-one-half of the entire Arab population of Palestine-fled or were driven out of their homes in..."

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/023112978...ie=UTF8&s=books

"From Publishers Weekly
The United Nations Conciliation Commission for Palestine was established in 1948 "to provide protection and facilitate durable solutions for Palestinian refugees displaced in 1948." While now largely dormant, in the 1960s, the commission compiled a property database that contains some 453,000 records documenting around 1.5 million individual property holdings. A professor of history at Virginia's Randolph-Macon College, Fischbach, who worked on digitizing the archive, here presents a closely argued summation of what he found there. The book will undoubtedly figure in discussions of the Palestinians' "right of return."
Copyright 2003 Reed Business Information, Inc."

 

Another perspective... and I, for the most part, agree with the conclusion, though not the path leading up to it (IE I disagree with some of the views expressed as reality... but I don't deny that he may be spot on about terrorist intentions)... I have major qualms with what's been done to Palestinians per the articles mentioned above... and am inclined to feel that, at least in recent history, the Palestinians are being forced to just try and forget decades of barbaric oppression (not that Israelis haven't suffered from suicide bombers). Of course, disagreement is to be expected.

"Terrorists want Israel to kill civilians"

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid...icle%2FShowFull

"Palestinian Refugees: Old Problems-New Solutions"

"The Palestinian refugee problem started as a result of the war in 1948 over the creation of the State of Israel..."

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/080613393...4880701?ie=UTF8

And speaking of terrorism:

"Al-Qaeda : The True Story of Radical Islam"

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/185043666...4880701?ie=UTF8

"World leaders alarmed, angered by Mideast violence"

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060715/wl_mi...st_060715185447

(Has some interesting perspectives on the situation, and terrorism.)

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daronspicher @ Jul 15 2006, 11:52 AM) [snapback]286828[/snapback]</div>

Don't you mean that they can get everything rebuilt for them for free?

It they only put the same effort they put into their hatred... and use it to make their country better and just go forward instead of always lingering on the past...imagine what a great place the palestinians would live in!

It is seriously just like a dog who keeps trying to steal food from your plate...you keep swatting them, they cower back...and then forgetting about the first swat...they creep up again. Eventually, like daronspicher says, you are going to have to ramp up the punishment in the hopes that they will remember and stop!

I have mixed feelings about it escalating...although it would not be such a bad thing for Iran to get involved and us to blast them off of the planet.

 

What you all fail to realize is that would only create more and more terrorists... and only want to see the most recent history. I think you are the dog that feeds off what the media has portrayed to you. Have you no idea the political history of Iran and what has helped cause Islamic extremism to rise, particularly in Iran's case?

Note the following author is a conservative American Christian:

"Imperial Hubris: Why The West Is Losing The War On Terror"

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/157488862...4880701?ie=UTF8

 

As the late Abba Eban said when he was Israel's foreign minister in the sixties and early seventies, the Palestinians never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity.

Abba Eban - Wikiquote

Sadly, it is still so true.

 

Thanks for the input.

Couldn't Lebanon, despite the bombing of their country, ask Israel for its assistance in ousting Hezbollah? Or vice versa... Israel help Lebanon in a way that wouldn't ruin the country?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060715/ap_on_.../lebanon_israel

Lebanon is a pro-Western country... or at least was. Could there not have been a better way to respond, with Israel and Lebanon coordinating to oust Hezbollah? Or is the situation so complex that Lebanon would have erupted in more civil war? Can anyone expect the Lebanese do respond positively to the Israeli attack? IE in terms of the Hezbollah situation?

Having friends from Lebanon and hearing about Lebanese PM Hariri, I have a particularly soft spot for these people. Israel is bombing the hometown of my friend (starts with an S I think)... where is parents and relatives live. A truly sad situation.

EDIT: Well, what's happened has happened... can't change what's happened so my questions are futile.

Added - Editorial by a Lebanese American:

"Time for America to put its diplomatic muscle where its mouth is"

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?ed...rticle_id=73982

 

I am thoroughly convinced that all this Messaniac freedom and democracy spreading is merely a smokescreen. The goverment doesn't give a damn about that. If they would, they would do something to mediate the raping of Lebanon (Bush Senior, Syria, Israel, Bush Junior).

 

I can only hope that global warming would eventually unite everyone... I would like to hope that humanity can overcome its track record.