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Could be a bad 12V battery...

Discussion in 'Prius c Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by AtkinsonCycle, Mar 10, 2018.

  1. AtkinsonCycle

    AtkinsonCycle Junior Member

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    Hello All!

    Well, I may have a bad 12VDC battery on my hands. Both yesterday and today, I drove my Prius for about 10 minutes to the store, went in and came right back out to find my Prius C would not enter the ready state.

    Some background: I bought my Prius new in 2013 and I have 131k miles on it. I have never left the lights on it (inside or out) or drained the battery in any other way. I think it's just time. Some interesting observations:

    When this happened, I was able to open the doors with the remote.

    I put the key in and the entire dashboard stayed dark - no display of the car zooming by, no status lights of TPMS, airbag, etc.

    It wouldn't do anything. I got out of the car, closed the door and checked under the hood. I saw nothing out of place - no fuses blown.

    I checked the battery terminals - they are tight and the battery is secure.

    I checked the voltage. I saw 12.4VDC on the multimeter - a little low, but it had been sitting overnight and it was cold (40 d F).

    Both times, after exiting and entering the car, I put the key in, turned it and low and behold I got the normal start up screen. It then entered the ready state and I could drive it.

    After each time, the car has not had any further problems for the day. Just once - the first trip out for the day about 15 minutes.

    I run my car an hour 1 way to work each day, so I think it would have plenty of opportunity to charge. I am thinking I could have a battery that has a bad cell. I did not see any lose connections on the battery posts.

    What do you think? At 12.38 VDC after 8 hours of sitting, would you consider that acceptable? I do have a battery minder with desulfation and the 4 stage processor controlled charge scheme. I could hook it up and see if it increases the voltage...

    Thoughts? Thanks for reading this...
     
    #1 AtkinsonCycle, Mar 10, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2018
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  2. Sam Spade

    Sam Spade Senior Member

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    No, 12.4 is not acceptable for a battery that "normally" would be about 12.8.

    There is no magic to resurrect a dying battery, long term.
    Give your fancy charger a shot at it overnight.
    But start shopping for a new battery.
    Regardless of what the charger does, it won't last long.

    P.S. Even though the main battery connections appear clean and tight, sometimes they are NOT. But 5 years is a pretty good run for an OEM battery.
     
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  3. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    Is there an additional connection for the ground on the negative cable?

    The Gen3 has a ground connection to the body which can sometimes get loose.

    If the C has one, I’d check that as well.

    Keep us posted (y).
     
  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    12.4 ain't bad. it is possible that something else is the problem. charge it up and see how she holds.
     
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  5. AtkinsonCycle

    AtkinsonCycle Junior Member

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    Hello all. Thanks for the speedy replies. I did check the negative to body cable - it's tight. I will take the terminal connections off, clean them and reinstall the clamps. Sam, I think you're right - 12.38 V is not that great. It may be on it's way out. The odd thing is I searched a local OEM parts web page and the Prius C without smart key battery is no longer available...

    Battery - Toyota (28800-21181) | Conicelli

    I have had good luck with Odyessey batteries, but they make mention of having to install their offering on it's backside (not sure what they mean)...

    [​IMG]
    buy online
    Year: 2013
    Make: Toyota
    Model: Prius C
    Engine: 1.5 Liters 91 CID L4
    Model #: PC925MJT
    BCI #: S34B20R
    Install Notes: Installation requires battery to be placed on its back side to fit dimensionally

    Never mind. I see what they mean... I don't think mounting it on it's side is bad - the battery would be fine, but the way some have run auxiliary cables to the positive and negative terminals isn't for me.

    There is this offering:

    Replacement Battery for Toyota Prius - Battery Warehouse

    But it doesn't list my model (which is a C without the smart key). But it should fit...

    Does anyone have an updated part number for the Prius C 12V battery? 2880021181 seems to be no longer available...

    Thanks again!
     
    #5 AtkinsonCycle, Mar 10, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2018
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  6. davids45

    davids45 Active Member

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    G'day AtkinsonCycle,

    I'm inclined to agree with bisco that your battery's resting voltage of 12.4V is not bad and you should consider something else could be or was your problem.

    I just went outside and turned on my 2016 c that's been in the driveway overnight. Not putting my foot on the brake, pressing 'Power', it started up in ACCESSORY mode and the battery read 12.3V on my cigarette-lighter-socket usb plug-in that has a built-in voltmeter and temperature display. Temperature display was 24C, felt about right.

    Pressing the 'Power' button again (still no foot on the brake), more dashboard lights came on and the internal air-circulation fan started up, and the voltage dropped to 12.0V.
    Turned the car off with another brakeless 'Power' push. I waited 5 minutes and repeated the exercise.
    Same battery values - 12.3V on ACCESSORY start, and 12.0V with another foot-free 'Power' press to get a fan running, etc.

    Now, with my foot on the brake, a 'Power' press brought up the ready-to-go display and the usb-plug battery voltage now was 14.4V. My belief is the traction battery is now charging the 12V battery as a pseudo-alternator, hence the 14V reading that is the 'alternator' input, not the output of the 12V battery. The ICE did not need to start up during this test.

    These battery values match earlier tests I made when I first installed the $10 e-bay usb multi-function plug months ago.

    I have not had any problems starting the 'c' in the 18 months I've had it.

    Nonetheless, good luck with whatever you try.

    David S.
     
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  7. AtkinsonCycle

    AtkinsonCycle Junior Member

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    Hello! Thanks for the reply. Yes, it's true the battery is above 12V, but not by much. I think it's odd that this has happened for the last two days - only once at the first trip of the day. If it is a connection, I bet it will be joys finding it. I'll start with the terminals on the battery and see what happens. Bisco suggested checking trouble codes. I guess I'll bust out the Techstream and see if I can find anything out.
     
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  8. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    no, i suggested charging it. if there aren't any dash lights, i don't think there will be trouble codes.
    you are going to need a new battery within a few years. you can replace it now to eliminate it as a possibility, or see what happens after charging by checking the voltage every morning, if the car is starting.
    it is possible that the amperage is bad, even though the volts are fair.
    an auto parts store can test the amperage for free.
     
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  9. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

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    Yeah either a auto parts store with an electronic battery tester, or for DIY: Solar BA5, and you can assess the battery's health. Try entering your car data on Pep Boys, see what 12 volt batteries they're offering? For 3rd gen they seem to often have a Bosch on sale, with free install for around $145. They'd probably have the electronic battery tester available too, one stop shopping.

    FWIW, my Optima Yellow Top is only reading 12.58 volts first thing this morning, just hooking up volt meter. I have Solar BA5 but it's a bit of a pain, you have to connect directly to posts. Anyway: only about 2.5 years old, and fairly religously kept on a maintainer when the car's idle, which is frequently, two or three days at a time. It had a good run yesterday, but 12.58 first thing the next morning, is not too impressive.

    I'll likely go with a Canadian Tire Motomaster next time, apparently a rebadged Exide. I think Optimas are maybe overrated.
     
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  10. AtkinsonCycle

    AtkinsonCycle Junior Member

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    OK. So, no check engine light = no trouble codes. I was kind of wrestling with the idea of replacing the battery if that is not the problem, but as you said, it WILL need replaced in the not so distant future IF it doesn't need to be replaced now. Thinking about it in those terms is a little more palatable.

    @bisco - I mistook the "always have the trouble codes read, before going to all the hassle of testing the 12v health." as a suggestion that I should check for codes. I think it's a good idea regardless. Sometimes there are codes that are stored and the check engine light is not on.

    But, I can check the connections, clean them, try to follow connections and see if anything looks amiss and go from there. It is odd that after several minutes I can get the ready state on. I am curious what the amperage demand is on the 12V battery when booting the control units during start up. I haven't found evidence to support that a smart key Prius C battery (which is said to have more capacity) will fit in a non smart key Prius C. Can anyone confirm if this is true?

    I found an OEM Toyota parts dealer in PA that lists the battery Conicelli shows as no longer available (in the first post link). If I can fit the larger battery, and it is a stocked part, I'll most likely go that route.


    Toyota Prius c Vehicle Battery. HAZMAT. NOT AVAILABLE TO SHIP. PICKUP ONLY - 2880021181 | Diamond Toyota, Lebanon PA


    Thanks for the replies and suggestions.
     
    #10 AtkinsonCycle, Mar 10, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2018
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  11. padroo

    padroo Senior Member

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    Any battery voltage above 12 Volts should start your car.

    I don't know what battery the C takes but Pepper Boys sells one for a regular Prius.
     
  12. Sam Spade

    Sam Spade Senior Member

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    While it is possible that the battery holder/space is different, it is highly doubtful.
    I bet that the batteries listed for other models of the same year C would work fine.
     
  13. Sam Spade

    Sam Spade Senior Member

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    It is NOT.
    I've pointed that out to him several times but he leaves it there anyway.

    A failing 12 V system, for whatever reason, can cause false trouble codes to be set.
    Reading them out and making a record of them is not a bad idea necessarily but trying to USE them to try and fix the problem without first checking the 12 V system is just foolish; especially when there several set pointing to multiple failing sub-systems.
     
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  14. Sam Spade

    Sam Spade Senior Member

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    Sorry but not in the case of modern cars that rely on computers to get them going.

    12.0 volts with no load indicates a battery that is about half discharged.
    And when any load is applied to it, the voltage is likely to go down more; often a LOT more.

    Bad advice.
     
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  15. AtkinsonCycle

    AtkinsonCycle Junior Member

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    Hello. Thanks for the replies. I am about to take the Prius out for a 10 minute trip. If it is going to do it, it will most likely do it then. I mean, of course, exhibit the dead display screen symptoms it has for the last two days (referred to as "it"). I find it curious that it has happened on two consecutive days only once. The last time it happened, I noticed that the lock/unlock button on the door would not actuate the door locks; however, I did gain initial entry into the vehicle with the remote - the door unlocked. When I tried the lock unlock on the remote fob, I could hear a relay click under the dash, but it would not actuate the locks either. The display screen that shows a pictorial of the car with the door open was not present, but as the situation unfolded, the graphic did appear, but flashed and seemed dim. After checking all the obvious (fuses, loose terminal on the battery, etc.), I was thinking that perhaps I had a loose connection somewhere in the car. I am including this detail so if anyone else has the same sorts of symptoms, it may aid them with diagnosis.

    I think I will get a new, fully charged battery and replace the old with the new and see what happens.
     
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  16. padroo

    padroo Senior Member

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    2016 Prius Battery Specifications.jpg

    While the state of charge is low Toyota disagrees with you.
     
  17. Sam Spade

    Sam Spade Senior Member

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    The experience of literally hundreds of Prius owners......and THOUSANDS of the owners of other cars around the world pretty much proves that their statement is not right.

    But you are free to believe whatever you please.

    The sad part about that is: Many Toyota shops seem to believe that is true too. It simply is NOT.
     
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  18. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

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    Have to say, if I saw 12.0 I'd be alarmed. Anything lower than 12.5 doesn't look good to me.
     
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  19. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    I saw 12.31 on our 2010’s original 12v over New Years and swapped it out;).

    Gave us 8.5 years of service(y).
     
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  20. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

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    I saw 11.9 on our original Yuasa battery, after getting the grandkids out of the car, then forgetting to close one last door, for 18 hours. Immediately put it on charger, and it took extra long, but after that I figured it'd days were numbered.

    Replaced it with an Optima Yellow Top September 2015, but that's turning out to be ok but no great shakes. I'm very careful, keep it on a smart charger any time the car is sitting more than a day, and still, if I check it first thing in the morning after a good drive the day before, it's around 12.58. Not that impressed.