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Featured Consumer Reports "New Cars" Dec 2023

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by bwilson4web, Nov 12, 2023.

  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    In 2012 after a particularly inaccurate Prius review, I dropped our Consumer Reports (CR) subscription. Randomly, I scan newsstand copies, mostly ignored but this time, I paid $16.34 to buy one:
    upload_2023-11-11_22-6-26.png
    About this reviewer, a retired engineer who has owned a 2003, 2010 Prius, 2017 Prius Prime, 2014 and currently a 2017 BMW i3-REx, and 2019 Tesla Model 3. So these will be the vehicles I will check in this issue:
    • pp 8-9 Insurance - I had a recent claim for a damaged door on my recently purchased 2017. I had to pay $1,300 to have it repaired. But Farmers is not even listed in CR. I was aware of USAA and will see about switching both car and house insurance. I think Farmers costs too much for a poorly handled claim.
    • pp 13 Tires - Looking for low rolling resistance, "Firestone All Season" tires are listed for $104. But Tire Rack shows multiple models and all were listed closer to $200. Another, "Pirelli Cinturato P7 All Season Plus II" was listed at $130 but Tire Rack shows it is discontinued and only one in stock for ~$200. There are others but having two strikeouts, no interest comparing the CR table with Tire Rack.
    • pp 16 Hot New SUVs, Cars, and EVs - shows the "Volkswagen ID Buzz" that remains vaporware.
    • pp 51 Electric Vehicles - Model 3 is listed 6 of 9. The top is Kia EV6 with a score of 91 but today this just a CCS-1 hobbled car. No credit for the Tesla SuperCharger network. No Prius entry.
    • pp 46 Cars: Luxury Small Electric - "Tesla Model 3 Long Range," $59,000, and not the most affordable "Rear Wheel" unit. Model 3 MPGe, 130, compared to 103, 96, and 88. CR editorial score 3d, 78, of four ranging from 84-53.
    • pp 52 SUVs Electric - Model Y also underrated like the Model 3. The MPGe, 121, versus 105-90.
    • pp 56-57 What the Trouble Spots Include - My EVs, Tesla Model 3 and two BMW i3-REx were all but immune from "Engine Major, Engine Minor, Engine Cooling, Transmission Major, Transmission Minor, Fuel Systems, and Exhausts." Yet the CR editorial score ignores this.
    • pp 57 Satisfaction - "Comes from CR's Auto Surveys" but does not list which year. A YouTube "Ride The Lightning" reported all four Tesla models were in the top 10, in 2021. My mistake as it never occurred to me that a YouTube would be so out of date. But CR because they did not identify the year.
    • pp 166 Tesla Model 3 - CR editorial score 78 inspite of top scores in all but two in, "Paint/Trim and Noises/Leaks" where it got the second highest. This is what drove me to cancel our 2012 subscription ... the disconnect between individual scores and the CR editorial score.
    • pp 172-173 Toyota Prius and Toyota RAV4 Prime - the Prius Prime is missing!
    • pp 191 Safety Features and Crash-Test Ratings - the Tesla Model 3 gets top rating in all categories but "Blind Spot Monitoring and Rear Cross Traffic Warning."
    So I made a mistake looking for a YouTube reported, CR 2021 Reader Survey. The survey is typically taken in the late winter and published in the Spring ... my bad. I well remember how high the Prius rated by their readers yet treated badly by the disconnected CR editorial scores. Worse, CR compares EVs on the same scale as ordinary gasser and hybrids when clearly EVs have significantly fewer parts to break.

    I fully understand that CR may appeal to others ... not my problem. I've found it wanting and except for the rare, newsstand copy, have no use for it.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #1 bwilson4web, Nov 12, 2023
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2023
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  2. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    Hmm, so you don't like them because they didn't like your Tesla Model 3.

    While it is easy to dismiss their tests and scores, you should realize that these guys drive all cars available out there and really know what cars are about.

    That said, I wouldn't buy a Tesla Model 3 not because CR gave it a 78 but because it does not have BSM and RCTA (regardless of what you think), and its ADAS is all or nothing (doesn't let the driver to codrive).

    The bottom line is that you should buy what you need. If a fuel-efficient BEV is what you need and you don't need BSM, RCTA, and codriving, then Model 3 is the perfect car for you.
     
  3. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    It started almost two decades ago when they "didn't like" my Prius. The obvious flaw is their editorial score is not the sum of their separate metrics for the Prius, the missing Prius Prime, and continues with my Model 3.

    • BSM - Blind Spot Monitoring
    • RCTW - Rear Cross Traffic Warning (RCTA typo?)
    As for BWM, my Model 3 warns me and even applies a corrective nudge away when I have attempted to change lanes onto another vehicle advancing to pass me on the passenger side. I have always appreciated that extra to side mirror safety. But let's quote on pp 166 from the CR review, "There isn't a proper BSW system, instead images of nearby cars are displayed on the enter screen, which can be distracting to the driver." They are not distracting to this driver.

    Then Rear Cross Traffic Warning (RCTW) is tossed out without a definition. So Mr Google found:
    Guide to Rear Cross Traffic Warning and Backup Cameras - Consumer Reports

    upload_2023-11-12_10-42-38.png

    Remember that "distracting center display?" Well it shows such traffic as well as the rear camera view and distance warnings to the rear quarters. None of my Prius ever had anything like RCTW.

    Not to worry, I don't really care if Consumer Reports chooses to ignore the safety features already in the car choose these nits. I am sure there are drivers today who agree with them ... but that is not me.

    I have no idea what "codriving" means. I do have beta versions of Autopilot and Full Self Driving which are much better than the driver assist package in my former 2017 Prius Prime and totally absent in my 2017 BMW i3-REx. The Tesla systems make long distance travel much, much easier than the previous Prius and even the BMW i3-REx.

    The biggest problem with Consumer Reports is they don't do simple math to create their score. They rate things on a 0 and 1-5 grade. A "0" is not available. So simply add up the metrics and that should be the vehicle score. As for negatives like the "What the Trouble Spots Include" pp 56, 0 to 1-5 grade times -1 works to map into an arthimetic score that like basketball, is better the more positive it is.

    I had not commented on "Road-Test Highlights" pp 184-189 because Prius were not listed. But a quick scan of the Tesla metrics versus some of the other ICE vehicle claims does not match my street experience.

    Unlike an ICE or hybrid vehicle, Tesla acceleration can always be maximum and just as quiet from a standing start. In contrast, an ICE or hybrid vehicle has to have the brake and accelerator depressed to come close to Tesla performance. The noise and strain on their engine and transmission is obvious and seldom applied in ordinary driving.

    I'm sure we are happy with our respective rides. Just Consumer Reports violates basic engineering practices in their editorial score and that is what pisses me off.

    Bob Wilson
     
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  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i tried cr a few years ago when we needed a refrigerator. a lot of utter nonsense, and i've never been back.
     
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  5. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    There is a movement to adopt standard names, operation, and controls of ADASes. CR is one of the groups backing it. It does make a lot of sense from a safety perspective as drivers don't need to learn different ways between cars.

    That said, Tesla has been putting ADAS into their cars long before others, and their dash and controls already more adaption for drivers than other cars. CR and others may not like how they do things, but that isn't an excuse to lie about the features it has.
     
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  6. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    You bought the new-car guide. The test for the new Prius Prime has not been completed yet—that's why it is absent.

    I looked at the ratings metrics for Tesla Model 3. It primarily suffers in the comfort and noise areas—That's why its road-test score is not phenomenal as you expect it to be. Its reliability problems and owner satisfaction further decrease its overall score to 78 from the road-test score of 82.

    You are forgetting that there are many excellent cars out there today. Even the Corolla and Corolla Hybrid have become excellent cars. Top-rated larger cars like Camry and Accord blow smaller cars like Model 3 away. Koreans make really good cars, too, nowadays.

    But, at the end, if you ignore certain areas of ratings, the overall scores and road-test scores won't be useful for you. For example, if you don't care about ride, noise, and comfort, Model 3 would score very well.

    If they say Model 3 does not have BSM and RCTA, they are onto something. Perhaps you can if you are cross-eyed, but I cannot look at the side mirror and center display simultaneously when I am changing lanes; so, anything that tries to make up for the lack of a BSM with the center display is useless for me. You should thank the antics of Elon Musk for that.
     
  7. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i drove for 50 years without bsm and without incident
     
  8. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    You don't have an accident until you have one.
     
  9. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    and you can have one with bsm if you're not careful
     
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  10. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    I am sure it works better to use one's gut feeling instead of expert-done tests.
     
  11. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    Of course you can, but the chances are greatly reduced, and driving becomes a lot less stressful with a second eye. Moreover, BSM will also see cars without headlights in total darkness, which your eyes may not see.
     
  12. mikefocke

    mikefocke Prius v Three 2012, Avalon 2011

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    BSM is in the eyes of the beholder. My Rav4 lights up the mirror if a car is in my BS and, if I start to move to that side, sounds an alarm triggered by proximity and even jerks the steering away from the object. No matter if I have my turn signal on or not (which I do 99% of the time).

    A friend didn't like it because it didn't sound a bong when there was a BSM issue and he had his turn signal on. He hated that so much he traded a year old car for one that did.

    Different strokes.
     
  13. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    BSM won't detect cars coming very fast.
     
  14. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Can't say what they have to be going to not be detected, but the Subaru will warn about cars farther away the faster they moving in relation to me.
     
  15. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Fair enough.

    For now, I'll try to compare the Prius they did review with my Model 3 with all common characteristics and the CR metrics. Then I'll sum the CR scores and we'll see if it makes sense.

    If I have time, I may include the Bolt unless someone can make a compelling case for their ride (i.e. "I am the all powerful moderator and you will do MY RIDE!")

    Bob Wilson
     
    #15 bwilson4web, Nov 12, 2023
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  16. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Vehicle Model 3 Prius Bolt
    1 metrics 97 103 75
    2 road test 82 78
    3 MPGe 132 52 120
    4 Safety 60 20 37
    5 CR editorial 78 49

    * - A blank cell means CR did not list one.
    ** - I've attached an Excel compatible (I hope) of my spreadsheet.

    Bob Wilson
     

    Attached Files:

    #16 bwilson4web, Nov 13, 2023
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2023
  17. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    my feeling on the bolt so far is that it's a great around town car, second car. (perhaps like your i3)

    it is a great cruiser (tested only to 65mph) quiet, smooth and comfortable.

    much better than the cramped gen 5 prius imo, except for range.

    but if i was looking for a primary cruiser, and many bolt owners will disagree with me, i would buy a tesla for the charging stations. bolt takes more preparation, time and fiddling to find and charge
    on the road.
     
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  18. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    as far as tco, cost per mile and etc., i don't have a clue, as that is not my focus.
     
  19. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Your cheeks are going to hurt … from smiling.

    Bob Wilson
     
  20. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    it is amazing how it can leap into traffic entering the highway, even mrs b was shocked.

    with the prius, you floor it and wait for the wheels to catch up with the engine
     
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