Considering Purchasing 2003 prius

It sounds like a good deal:

8 year, 100k battery warranty​

However, you need to research the vehicle and do the following tests:

• Stop to stop steering test - looking for encoder problem.
• Roll down test from 40 mph - listening for a rumble

Make sure you have alternate transport if it needs repair. Plan to change transaxle oil and replace tires.

Now I am willing and able to do my own work. But if you have to rely on mechanics, a car with more warranty may make more sense.

Bob Wilson

 

Hi new poster

I would amplify that Bob's 'reasearch the vehicle' means obtain the complete maintenance and repair history. A carfax check is often recommended, but I have also read that they can fail to disclose significant events such as flooding damage.

A body/paint inspection is actually easy and a powerful way to exclude prior bodywork. For flooding I'd sniff the upholstery (honest).

Now, I like the NHW11s better than most, but if your main goal is high vehicle reliability (as opposed to hybrid wonderfulness) then you could get a nice used Toyota/Honda sedan for about the same money; maybe less.

 

I think you are approaching the problem right. Buying an out-of-warranty, NHW11 imposes on the owner substantial maintenance risks.

"Tomfreed" pretty well set the standard of one type of ideal owner. Yet as a used car dealer and fixer-up, he got so frustrated with the NHW11 that he was fit to be tied. He had the skills and tools to get two NHW11s back on the road but ran into subtle problems that really dogged him down. Even now, I doubt he'll willingly take on another NHW11 "fixer upper" although he has already paid the learning curve tuition. "Tomfreed" did at least 3 transaxle swaps, a major undertaking.

With an older vehicle, the owner provides the maintenance and the options are daunting:

• $$$$ - Toyota repairs
• $$ with risk - 3d party, if you can find one, repair
• $ with risks - self-maintenance, you assume all risks and labor

But these relationships exists for all older vehicles and the NHW11 remains a relatively small population. Understand there never was a question of us buying another NHW11 in 2009 when I had the option of buying a new ZVW30 for a good enough price ... about 4x the price of a used NHW11. But the problem is not unique to the NHW11.

I bought a used RV for my wife, $4,000, and drove it from Florida to Huntsville AL. Once I got it home, it took another $1,000 of 3d party mechanic parts and labor to bring it up to reasonable running order. We still haven't taken it on a trip but that is due to her health so it sits on the driveway ... not burning gas at 8 miles per gallon.

The other ideal owner is someone like "Orangeboy" who got his NHW11 for under $2,000, Canadian. His first task was to replace the transaxle and the first one sent was the wrong model. He is making great progress, the car is licensed and running again, and he is now going into experimental areas. He is a "green rodder" expanding the capabilities of his hybrid. But he has the tools, maintenance manuals, and attitude needed to find, fix and improve what is already there.

Bob Wilson

 

The DIY anecdotes above might be read to suggest that transaxle replacement is part and parcel of owning a G1 Prius. This is not the case at all; in fact, I don't know if 10 transaxle replacements have happened in total in the US.

I would approach buying a used Prius the same way any other car:

• Know the model's weak points, and make sure they are specifically looked for in inspection
• Find a mechanic who can inspect the car thoroughly. In the case of Prius, this means both general mechanical as well as hybrid drivetrain.
• Consider paying to have the traction battery's health judged.
• Buy from someone you trust, who can show reasonable maintenance records
• Avoid buying a car that may have been used for extreme driving. Rentals fall in this category

Lastly, Pay a price that you will still be ok with if $2000 of repairs are needed the first year.

 

Sagebrush is right. We have a tendency to only see 'the sad cases' of NHW11 Prius that have failed out of warranty. In this universe, they mostly look broke even though we're only talking about maybe 25-50 out 54,000 sold. There is a risk but it isn't a 'set your hair on fire.' Just some of us like to play with any Prius, even the broken ones. <GRINS>

Bob Wilson

 

It would be great if we could actually pin down the failure rates to date of NHW11 transaxles, inverter/converters, HV batteries and steering systems. There have been many attempts by the Prius public to do so, but they are all hampered by the incomplete data offered on the internet and anecdotal sources. I have no doubt that Toyota has the goods, but aside from some announcements about the HV batteries, they aren't talkin'.

Yet perhaps this is mostly of academic interest. If the rates are similar to failures of transmissions and (hard-working) engines in conventional vehicles, the system prices are similar and the impact in cents/mile on total ownership costs are as well. The major difference is that in Prius, if you draw the short straw, there are only so many sources for the replacement parts and the work required. This is where NHW11 sits, as a short-run production vehicle.

For those (like me) with an odd affection for the vehicle, we hop right in and hope for the best. Or, pull out the wrenches (and wallets) if things go bad. But each potential buyer ought to assess him/herself, in additon to the candidate vehicle being considered.

Subsequent Prius models have been materially improved, and the populations are larger, so those purchase decisions would work out differently.

 

You know, it probably isn't too many years into hte future before G1 Prius becomes a 'classic' car and appreciates in value.

 

One interesting group I joined a year ago is Ecomodder.com, where I first 'met' Orangeboy. But I'm also seeing a group of enthusiasts who rebuild and optimize their rides. They share the same experimental discipline and interest in technology that first attracted me to "Prius Technical Stuff." For example, there was a short thread by someone who bought two, NHW11s, I believe for ~$750 (Can.) each, and plans to make them into electric vehicles.

Now Ecomodder doesn't have the legacy of "Prius Technical Stuff" nor the high ratio of Prius expertise hanging around here. But with a few exceptions, they are empiricists. It is the natural home of future NHW11 owners who will do the hard work it takes to move the performance boundaries.

Understand, I have no problem with the gas and diesel owners at Ecomodder. Many of their experiments have application to our Prius. For example, I borrowed some vortex generators and tested them with the NHW11 last summer. I was unable to find a detectable difference but it was the experiment ... testing a hypothesis that mattered.

I'm not here to advocate for Ecomodder but answer the question of the natural home of out-of-warranty NHW11s ... perhaps ones with major repairs pending. It also looks like Ecomodder has the right mix of attitude and energy to be excellent, future NHW11 owners ... and NHW20s too.

Bob Wilson