confirmed overfill damage

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ Mar 19 2007, 10:36 AM) [snapback]408422[/snapback]</div>

I've never had my tank so much as burp, but I've always filled at the lowest pump setting. I have topped by clicking repeatedly and slowly though, but never gotten more than a half gallon more in that way.

What would the symptoms that lead to checking the codes? Just curious.

Dave M.

 

$1,000 is about what I paid to have the fuel bladder/tank assembly replaced when I received a tank of contaminated gas from a Navy Exchange gas station. Fortunately, Citgo, the Navy contractor who confirmed supplying the contaminated gas, paid for the repair lock, stock and bladder. I was lucky.

While topping off does increase your range, it doesn't increase your mileage. I have yet to understand why people are so obsessed with eeking out that last mile out of the tank and then run out of gas -- or worse! Yikes!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ Mar 19 2007, 09:36 AM) [snapback]408422[/snapback]</div>

Not enough details to know who is responsible. A manfunction in the fueling nozzle could make the gas station responsible. Do you have vapor recovery nozzles in NC? It's hard to imagine normal topping off causing this level of overfill. If so, it would be a more common problem. Could you give us more details on what the bladder problem was? It just seems like there has to be more to the story.

 

Thanks Galaxee... for more interesting information. I *DO* continue to live and learn. First, that the Prius 'codes' can indicate a 'fuel-filled' cannister, and Secondly {apparently} that in case of contaminated fuel you would be obliged to replace the entire bladder/tank assembly rather than a 'drain-flush-re-fuel' procedure as in an ordinary fuel system.

I have to smile and chuckle when I consider the simplicity of my first car - a VERY well-used 1931 Model A Ford 2-door sedan bought in 1947. My, how things have changed - I would admit FOR THE BETTER.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ Mar 19 2007, 01:36 PM) [snapback]408422[/snapback]</div>

Galaxee, does DH know exactly how you can overfill the Prius? Does the fuel have to be forced in (as with a malfunctioning fuel nozzle)? Can one overfill the Prius if you were to just let the last half a gallon or so gravity feed into the Prius?

I can see a failure as you described above if the fuel was force fed into the system after it reached normal capacity. I could be wrong but I would hope it would be difficult if not impossible to overfill the system if you were to "top it off" gravity style. Are there not check valves or other design features leading to the various pollution control systems which prevent liquid damage under most conditions of the failure DH described?

Rick
#4 2006

 

You can over fill a Prius, just like any other car. Insert just the tip of the nozzle and with your fingers pull back the vapor skirt on the nozzle and fill until gas is at the lip of the fuel cap.

If you do this first thing in the moring and then park it in the sun, so the gas warms up and then it will
move into the vent tube and the charcoal canister.

Just one idea on how you can do it.

But who wants that much range, next thing you know people will put 5 gal gas cans in the back and transfer pump and hose.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ Mar 19 2007, 10:36 AM) [snapback]408422[/snapback]</div>

Whew. After my overfill-and-spill episode, I count myself lucky that the only damage (so far) was to the environment. Mind, the overfill happened a little before noon, so there probably wasn't too much in the way of gas thermal expansion. My ScanGauge II isn't reporting any codes, too.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ Mar 19 2007, 08:10 PM) [snapback]408745[/snapback]</div>

Thanks for the low down Galaxee.

Dave M.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DFWPrius @ Mar 19 2007, 04:12 PM) [snapback]408597[/snapback]</div>

I'd love to have about 250 more miles between fillups. At 60+ degrees, I can fill up every 4 days as I limp into the station with about 550 miles on the tank... less than 60 degrees, it's every 3 days with about 420 miles. 101 fillups in about 14 months since I got the car.

I'm curious to know what it takes to wreck the canister. If it's freezing out or a high wind, I pump and go. If it's not so bad out, I add about a gallon after the click off and have no problems with the canister.

Am I overfilling? Or, is overfilling beyond what I do?

 

Thank you galaxee for the lowdown. I had a Murphy Oil (Walmart / Sams) gas pump fail on me Wed. In Texas, our pumps are designed to shut off when the nozzle senses a full tank (don't know how, maybe vapor sensor or liquid sensor). Anyway I've never seen one fail in 20 years, but Wed the one I was using did just that. The result was a nice river of gas streaming out of my tank's filling whole, around the nozzle and down the quarter panel. Dang pump never did shut off.

Anyway I did want to say that the pumps do fail occasionally, as I can bare testament to. Perhaps it happens more on a Prius, perhaps not, but from here on out my "auto-cut-off" is always going to be my index finger (and possibly calculator).

Someone suggested to intentionally under-fill the tank by 1 or 2 gallons to avoid a spill. I like calculating my mileage, but I'm giving serious thought to this idea. Just can't say I trust the nozzle to let me know when to stop filling or let go of the trigger.

I'll assume that if I get no codes, then I dodged the bullet on this one (yes, no)?

Dan's original post, and followup

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daronspicher @ Apr 13 2007, 09:45 AM) [snapback]422720[/snapback]</div>

A gallon seems like a lot to me. Do we know what the volume of the canister and connecting tubing is? From the pictures, it seems like it might be less than that. I top off but usually just a few tenths of a gallon. Don't know that I ever added an extra $3 to the total.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jrfaris @ Apr 13 2007, 05:59 PM) [snapback]422972[/snapback]</div>

We just had the overfill and spill issue our last fillup . I'd say it was little over a gallon , when we turned on the car it made like a thump ( like going into a gear hard on bad tranny ), fiance' quoted " that's never happened before ! ". Luckily we haven't seen any adverse reactions to the fill since , over 200 something miles on 2 bars on that very same tank . I think part of the fill up issue is the vapors held within the bladder , triggering nozzle to shut off constantly . I believe I noticed gas flowing thru overfill hole as well , falling down the car to the ground , cleaning w/ a wet paper towel and patting dry . Last , seems like when getting close to possible overfill the bladder makes a noise similar to letting air out of a balloon , little lower pitched squeal , then will click 2-3 more times and withdraw nozzle . The spill / overfill episode clicked too many times after the noise , thinking be o.k. :angry: P.S.: pumps not made for PRIUS , may have to trade in for V.W. Diesel

 

On just one occasion, a year or two ago, a nozzle failed to shut off on me. I heard a burbling sound, grabbed the nozzle and shut it off. When I removed the nozzle, gas "burped" out of the tank and ran down the side of the car. I jammed the gas cap on as quick as I could.

There were no warning lights, and the car seemed to run normally. I was concerned that the cannister could have been damaged, but at that point there was nothing I could do. I presume the lack of warning lights means it sustained no damage.

I think this was before I had the filler pipe TSB work performed. It's never happened again since. (For more recent owners, some of the very early Priuses had a faulty design to the filler pipe, which Toyota replaced for free if you complained of filling problems.)

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dmckinstry @ Mar 19 2007, 09:55 AM) [snapback]408437[/snapback]</div>

I have also followed the old-wives tail of using the slowest pump setting until recently. About 3 months ago I read in an published item that talked about tank bladders in general and the Prius in more specific terms that the snugness of the filler tube liner was designed to result in increased air pressure during "normal" filling so as to cause the bladder to expand from the increased air pressure. So...

The last few times I've filled the tank I run the nozzle at the fasest flowrate possible (short of back-pressure shutting off the nozzle). What I've noticed is that the amount of gas I get in the tank (compensated for miles driven) is almost exactly the same. When I was filling slow I would "top-off" for one "click". I do the same thing on the fast fill and get about the same amount of extra in the tank.

Admittedly, temperatures in CA are mild enough so that the bladder isn't normally terribly stiff from the cold. One note, I took a Christmas drive from San Jose to Omaha (via I-80/US-50/I-70/I-80) and was using the slow-fill proceedure. I found that even using slow fill, the amount I could get in the tank was reduced by about 0.5 to 1.0 gallons. Obviously the bladder just gets too stiff when it gets cold.

IMO, slow fill isn't worth the time it takes and doesn't appear to buy much (if anything).

FYI...

In California, if you have a gas tank overflow because of the failure of a nozzle to automatically shut off there are telephone numbers posted on the pumps or inside the station. Take the time to call and register the complaint. The nozzles at the station will be inspected and the operator will be fined if they are defective. It's also your first step in getting the station to pay for your tank replacement.

Of course this doesn't count if you do a "top-off" squirt. h34r:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mehrenst @ Apr 15 2007, 08:44 PM) [snapback]423797[/snapback]</div>

I doubt there is a law against spilled gas in Texas (oil-state), but I did pen my letter here. FYI in Texas the Agriculture department regulates the pumps, if the CC made you curious.

11011011

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ Apr 16 2007, 09:39 PM) [snapback]424390[/snapback]</div>

Yep, that's my problem... The auto shut off seems to be flacky when the target vehicle is a Prius. Trying to figure how keep the standard auto shut off feature of Texas Pumps working... From what I've gathered it's a craps shoot. Sometimes it cuts off, some times it doesn't.

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