Civic Hybrid - Why buy one?

You should compare apples to apples. Per Side-by-Side Comparison, the EPA ratings for 2010 models of the above are:
HCH: 40 city/45 highway, 42 combined
Insight: 40/43, 41 combined

Where are you getting "real MPG experience rating of over 60?" I'd wager that's pretty tough in the Insight II w/o some serious hypermiling. Perhaps you're talking about the 1st gen Insight (3-cylinder 2-seater hybrid that is the MPG king)?

You can see that at Advanced Vehicle Testing Activity - Hybrid Electric Vehicles (looking at fact sheet PDFs since some of the fleet testing fuel economy PDFs are messed up) that on their Insights, they're getting 45.3 mpg and 40.8 mpg. On their current gen HCHs, they got 39.2 mpg and 38.9 mpg.

At Fuel Sipper Smackdown 2: Which Car Gets the Best Fuel Economy?, they got 42.3 mpg. At Big List of Fuel Economy: May 2010, their best was 45.8 mpg and average was 39.4 mpg. It looks like they've gotten rid of their Insight.

You can see what CR got in their testing (they don't hypermile or drive cars in an special way to get better mileage) at Most fuel-efficient cars. No Honda hybrid got anywhere near 60 mpg on any of their tests.

You also can't get factory leather on an Insight.

Personally, I can't find very good reasons for buying an Insight or HCH over a 3rd gen Prius other than lower up front cost if one wanted an Insight LX or EX with nav (vs. a Prius w/nav).

 

Hypermilers produce very good numbers in the Civic Hybrid too. With Wayne Gerdes at the wheel, at his highway speeds, the HCH beat both the Insight-II and the GenII Prius.

 

This is another US gallon vs. Imperial gallon, which gets about 50mpg in the US. I doubt those numbers are achievable by anyone but the extreme hypermillers. Just like the 65mpg+ numbers are not really achievable in the Prius without extreme hypermilling.

As to why, it is just looks and comfort.

 

The HCH is currently Honda's flagship hybrid. I've never sat in either one, but I'm guessing they stuffed more luxury and creature comforts into the Civic. There is more advanced technology in its drive train than the Insight even through it's an older generation. Honda left some stuff off the Insight to save costs and so not to overshadow the Civic. I'm pretty sure the Civic doesn't have an econ mode, which is most likely used in the Insight for the higher reported mileages.

At this point in time, a person shopping for a Honda hybrid shouldn't buy a Civic. They shouldn't buy an Insight either. The next gen HCH should be out soon, maybe next year. A person looking fuel economy should wait for it, or maybe just to its release will cut prices on the current model.

 

Good question, but not for the reason you're asking. We have both a Prius and a Civic Hybrid and we both prefer the Prius. The only reason I can think of for someone buying a Civic Hybrid was they hadn't driven the Prius before hand (as was our case).

 

Handling and ride are all personal preferences. If I had gone with a Focus over the Matrix, I maybe still be driving it today. From the short test drive the handling seemed better. The seats also seemed more comfortable. In the Matrix's defense, the seats didn't get uncomfortable until about a week after getting it. I'm positive the gen2 Prius and Matrix used the same seats.

 

My co-worker got the HCH over the Prius just because he liked the body style better. He wanted a hybrid to get semi-decent gas milage, but the Prius looked too much like a "snow birds vehicle" as he put it. He paid more for the base HCH than a base Prius and gets less gas milage. But for some, it's all about the looks.

 

At the moment when I’ve seen the first black Honda Civic, I was amazed. I just said.. I need to buy that too. It caught my eyes

 

I own a 06 HCH 2 and a 06 Prius. The Civic hybrid has much more to offer over the Insight. Take a look at the specs. H

 

The civic hybrid has issues with the IMA battery system. It is not reliable. The service manager at my dealer admitted to me that the purpose of the "computer patch" was to get the batteries to last longer than the warranty so honda didn't have to replace them all.

I wanted to love that honda. But as the batteries started dying it lost mileage and power. It was unsafe. We lost $4000 in the trade but I didn't want to be stuck with an unsafe car. I drive over 20000 miles a year seeing clients. We wanted a prius when we bought the honda but couldn't find one at the time--the last time gas was 4.50 a gallon. it was a 2008 with 55000 miles on it. Honday is currently being investigated by the Clean Air Regulatory Board in California because of the high battery failure rate (they are considered part of the emissions system). Additionally there is a class action lawsuit in process along with several articles online about battery failure in civic hybrids.

 

Without the IMA, the ICE generates 100+hp and 100+lbft torque.
How is that unsafe if you learn how to drive it better ?

At that driving rate, the warranty on the Prius battery runs out in 7 years. You should realize the Prius does not run with a dead battery.

Of course , if you listen to some of the "regulars" here, the Prius battery hardly fails ever.

 

If you haven't figured it out yet, see http://priuschat.com/forums/newbie-...onsidering-prius-iv-2011-a-2.html#post1291647 for a description of tpfun (apparently, trashing Prius fun), the non-owner of a Prius or any hybrid, for that matter.

From the accounts I've seen on greenhybrid.com, HCHs w/failing batteries don't drive very well and have markedly reduced mileage. I would be curious to hear more details about the symptoms, how badly acceleration, fuel economy and drivability were affected.

As for "Without the IMA, the ICE generates 100+hp and 100+lbft torque. " That is not true. Apparently revmelissa had an 08 HCH. I've I've seen figures of either 85 hp or 93 hp for the ICE on that generation (which is current, for the time being).

The 110 hp is combined system hp. Despite it having 110 hp combined (identical to 2nd gen Prius), it was (for whatever reason) slower than the 2nd gen Prius in acceleration tests.

 

IMA can run and be safe to drive without the battery, but the batteries on Honda's die a a much higher rate. On top of that, Honda has put in 'software updates' that use the battery less, so it fails less. But these updates reduce the mpg. Honda has made the customer pay in lost mpg, hassle and even repair bills for its battery engineering issues.

Civic Hybrid Owners Disappointed with Battery Software Fix | Hybrid Cars

The warranty may run out in 7 years but in general Prius batteries last 8 or more years. Very few gen-2 owners have had battery issues and even fewer have had to pay out of pocket to fix them.

The gen-1 batteries have held up very well for units that are as old as they are. Most people expected a far greater number of them to be bad at this point. That being said, they do have a finite life and they are dying for some owners. Compare that to the gen-1 Insight and you will see that the Prius owners were rewarded with much better reliability.

 

For someone who drives a Prius, that's a lot of fighting words.

Even a 85 hp engine is fine if the driver learns to use it properly.

 

Yes, the IMA is superior in this respect. One thing I haven't found out is whether the generator/DC converter can charge the 12V like an alternator even with a dead battery.

 

When the HCHII goes through a recalibration process, which happens with increasing frequency as the main battery deteriorates, assist at start off drops to near nil, and the performance drop is dramatic. Much of the Integrated Motor Assist happens just as the wheels start rolling: the electric assist helps to boost that initial torque, helping the diminutive 1.3 liter engine.

If for example you're attempting a left turn into a limitted gap in traffic, and the car goes into a recalibration, it can be downright dangerous.

 

Regarding my experience with the HCH. When I purchased the car I regularly got 40-45 mpg average and plenty of power. The car has an indicator in it that shows how much power the IMA is providing. It was easy to tell if it is working properly.

I see clients in their homes all over Los Angeles county so I drive all day every day. Specifically, I merge on and off of Los Angeles freeways multiple times per day--some of which have very short or no entrance ramps (110 in Highland Park). Anyone who drives on LA freeways needs a car with enough power to respond to rapidly changing traffic conditions. Without a functioning IMA the acceleration dropped dramatically. I changed my regular route because I didn't have enough power to get on the freeway at some entrances safely in heavy traffic. City street driving wasn't too bad but again if I was trying to enter a busy street with traffic I had to be certain that there was no one coming because the HCH didn't have enough power to pull out if the next car was just slow.

My mileage dropped to 35 and then to 32-34. By then the IMA light was only indicating intermittent function of the IMA.

After I presented my dealer with several articles from the internet about the faulty batteries and threatened to call the local NBC station, the service manager admitted to me that honda is aware of the problem but the don't know how to fix it. Ultimately the drove the vehicle with their diagnostic computer attached (it looked ok in the shop) and the car was obviously malfunctioning. They called Honda. Honda said no they would not replace the battery. (their policy is not to replace until it is completely dead) The dealer called their honda rep who okayed the replacement. They replaced the battery and told me that honda wanted me to know that they "don't think this is the problem but don't know what is or how to fix it."

That was on a Wednesday. We traded it for a prius on Friday. I love the prius and especially the power mode and the extra power it gives.

 

Agreed, I have experienced LA driving fun many times. So I definitely agree that driving the HCH without the IMA is inadvisable there. On the other hand, the Prius will not meet the lofty advertised mpg's with such aggressive driving.

Honda replaced the battery yet still you don't seem satisfied with the service. Why ?
At 20K mi/yr, I guestimate the battery already has 120K miles on it. Given that you bought it used, do you know what's the history of the vehicle ?

Power mode and fuel economy do not mix.