Civic Hybrid battery starting to die?

Some of the information on the article is agnostic of the true history and the actual purposes of these updates.

The truth is that Honda has been releasing updates for the HCH-II since January 2006 and I have received well over 14 in total since then. In fact, I actively seek them as they represent measurable improvements in the operational baseline for each of the subsystems. It just so happens this latest batch is a cumulative update most people should have as it contains a whole lot of improvements.

Furthermore, many of us in the community have long recognized from day one, that the HCH-II was to be frequently updated via software more than any other car in the industry since software upgrade ability was a primary and prevalent design attribute of almost every one of its sub-systems. Every good Honda hybrid technician knows this as part of their training.

And on this note, we been advising many HCH-II owners to ask for these updates at every oil change as they could easily take advantage of the improvements literally for free. Many did so with good results to show for. Others, well... some even think Honda is releasing these updates to "prevent/mask" the failing batteries.

The 2010 models are the ones that come with the new software baseline (batch of 4 distinct software updates) from the factory. The 2009 and prior year models do not and will need two or more of these updates. The most recent updates have been cooked 5-6 weeks ago and I announced them to the community well before many US owners got the letter from Honda. In fact, we have released details of every minor update since the cars release.

The Insight-II does not sport the hybrid AC compressor because of lower costs and IPU packaging simplicity and not because of the stress on the system. Come to think of it: The AC system on the HCH-II is truly a work of art and never ceases to amaze me and others who make good use of it.

As many of the updates Honda has released since Jan 2006, these updates simply adjust specific operational thresholds, some input maps and 2 instrument calibrations. In a nutshell, these updates really result in a slightly more aggressive regenerative profile (more hidden-regen under some circumstances) and a more measured assist affinity.

The impact the overall MPG is barely noticeable for most HCH-II owners and particularly beneficial for owners who eco-drive these cars. Hypermilers will love these updates the most.


Cheers;

MSantos

 

We all know that "ownership" is another way to help promote these technologies and knowing about HSD and IMA in equal amounts cannot hurt. Can it?

As an example, we know how it is when it comes to the HSD and the Prius: There's a world of ignorance and even pessimists out there who will not only incorrectly describe the underlying technology and how it performs, but will gladly seek to dismiss it with gross factual inadequacies. Among many others we can easily recall, the UA issue is a good example and I have yet see any need for a correction on any of my Prii (gen 2 or gen 3). Yes, even my 2010 will not get the software update as it is working beautifully and as designed.

The SoC ranges are exactly the same with 40% at the lowest normal and 80% has the highest. As in the gen 3 Prius, you have an 8 bar SoC scale and the IMA system typically will increase the regen affinity as soon as it gets to 4 bars. Unlike the gen 3 Prius which evokes a regular forced charge session when it gets to 2 bars, many IMA owners are startled by the occasional drop to 2 bars especially when the electric demands are high (hot weather and aggressive AC use). In part, these updates aim to "address" this scenario.

Cheers;

MSantos

 

Again, you are correct.

Cheers

MSantos

 

The recall notice I got in the mail specific said the update was to prevent premature battery failure. I don't have it in front of me at the moment, so I can't tell you *exactly* what it said, but I'm pretty sure those words were in there.

Oh, and my HCH's batteries *had* failed about a year ago and were replaced under warranty, so make of it what you will...

 

There is a difference between the preventative nature of the update which is something we've already confirmed in this thread, and the statement I was trying to make regarding the allegations that some in the community have been expressing about these software updates. My apologies for not making it clearer.

These allegations seem to cast doubt on the preventative benefits of the updates and are instead being called an opportunity for Honda to suppress and mask the DTCs, therefore enabling them to avoid the battery pack replacements. As a frequent recipient (and tester) of these updates I have no option but to denounce those allegations as false.

Lastly, as for several others, your pack was likely replaced without any issues as the earlier service checklists advocated that, and Honda also needed the field data.
But as they discovered, the majority of the battery packs that had been replaced showed no irreversible damage and most were re-introduced back into the channel as re-furbished (reconditioned) units. As in many other cases the replacement pack you got was likely a reconditioned unit and your service adviser should have informed you of this designation.

In light of the data provided by earlier replacements, Honda engineering believes the software updates are of benefit to the greater user base, not only because of the evidence of no damage and earlier high "strung" BCM monitoring software, but also because the units that had had the iterative updates (like mine) did not show the same level of instrumented deterioration.

That is why it is now much harder for foks to get a battery pack replaced since the service checklists have been modified to include the now "mandatory" software updates followed by an observation period.... to ensure that the instrumented (or actual/physical) degradation is properly and accurately addressed.

Cheers;

MSantos

 

The notice from Honda specifically states it is to prevent battery failure, and that the gas engine will operate more often. This can't help but drop mileage and also increase emissions.

 

more often does not have to mean more fuel used/distance. I hope for Honda that this is just a smart tweak of battery SOC travels.

 

do not know.... I guess time will tell.

All I know is that my mpg went down, autostop happens less, and I get noticeably less boost/assist. It is the lack of boost that irks me the most. There is no indication of when it will decide how much boost it will give. The firmware seems to be wanting to tiptoe gingerly on the battery now.

 

We got the update, and one spin-off is I find I'm much more concious of battery state, assist and regen.

For a while, post update, I was seeing a recal most every time I used the car. I'm more of the weekend driver, my wife uses it more, day-to-day.

The last few weeks I don't recall a recal., but have experience what I would term "close call" recal's, ie: maybe 4 bar state of charge showing, a sudden reluctance to assist, an increased propensity to semi-permenantly have 1~2 green bars showing, refusal to auto-stop. Nothing absolute though, sort-of a soft recal.

Also, I've become sceptical of what "full" charge means. I suspect it means no more than "that's as good as it gets", and that todays "full" does not equate to the full charge when the car was new. Just my seat-of-pants thinking.

 

During the summer, was the A/C used a lot? In my case, it seems to occur less now that it isn't A/C weather as much now. But it still occurs for me.

I guess I should mention that the recals are the worst of all. There is zero boost / assist while it does its recal. Since they happen without warning, even when the battery is at 4 or 5, it could occur in a dangerous situation.

 

No, hardly ever, and only on the highway, never in stop-and-go.