Civic EX-L vs Prime

it's a mindset, but you need something to spark your interest. he'll probably be very happy with a civic.

 

What's ACC, some sort of cruise control?

Ahh: Adaptive Cruise Control?

Also, where in the world is this? Seems expensive for Civic in the US.

 

Perhaps a Prius Liftback would be less shocking a change for them. It can be less shocking on the wallet too.

 

Only if you ignore the tax credits. The Prime is on par with the standard Prius for price at least level if you account for the credit.

As to Civic pricing, there is a very wide price gap between base Civic and top of the line Civic, but even the top tier Civic Hatchback is only priced at $27,000 with a majority of available options, so not sure what he is planning to add to get it to go up $3k unless you are including out the door price which would include tax, title.... Many of the features he is looking for would be standard in the Prime Premium.

 

I would think you would compare with the Civic Hybrid, right? If you are looking at a gasser, consider a Corolla or Camry.

 

Is Civic Hybrid available, anywhere?

Off-topic, but Honda designers (and industry wide) have GOT to reign in the increasingly "silly" stuff. They seem to have an aversion to clear and smooth space, feel an obligation to fill it with byzantine angularity, superflous bulges, blank grills and what have you:

 

No it was discontinued. They intend to reintroduce several hybrids made on their next gen platform that is the foundation of the Accord Hybrid. I believe a new hybrid only vehicle is due for the 2018 model year and then hybrid versions of other vehicles to follow in 2019 and beyond. They mentioned something like 50% of their vehicles having some alternative fuel or hybrid technology available by 2022 (if I recall correctly). This isn't to say they will be selling 50% hybrids/fuel cell/EVs, but that 50% of their products will have an alternative available. Like the Accord Hybrid which only represents about 5% of Accord sales last time I looked.

 

Good luck. I was able to convince a couple of people to buy a Prius. The vast majority listened but still bought what they wanted. Prius = slow and gas prices are low. That's all that matters to most people.

One friend didn't listen to me and got a C-max Energi. Immediately, they told me how they felt guilty buying such an expensive car. They could've gotten the PiP for thousands less but wanted more horsepower and and features only available on the C-Max. I was in stunned silence.

 

The Accord's hybrid system is there dual motor one. When the Clarity FCEV returns, there will also be a BEV and PHEV. PHHEV's will likely be using this dual motor system.

Honda also has a dual clutch hybrid system that is currently in the Jazz hybrid. This is a parallel hybrid with DCT along the lines of what Hyundai is putting in the Ioniq.This will be used in smaller cars, and I'm not sure which system the new 'Prius fighter' will get.

There is a third, SH-AWD hybrid system. It's based off the dual clutch, but also has two motors on the rear axle. It was available in one of the Acuras.

 

To date the only system they've used in the Civic is the infamous Integrated Motor Assist (IMA)? We're survivors btw: our 06 Civic Hybrid is still on the road, in the family, on it's second battery, but was really a mis-step.

 

I believe that for a short time there was a plug-in version of the Accord using this generation of Hybrid system. It sold poorly and they discontinued it. Honda has had a horrible time breaking into the hybrid market and staying there. The IMA in the Civic was a horrible design of a mild-hybrid solution. Their newest solution is closer to a full-hybrid solution but we will see (the small car version the accord system is definitely a full hybrid). There is a rumor that the Accord hybrid system will be used with modifications in a Ridgeline in the future, not sure if they are going to go with the SH-AWD system or really modify the Accord. This is according to someone who has posted frequently on the Ridgeline Owners Club forums who is close to several Honda engineers and has been fairly accurate with what he says (and is often under NDA not to share additional information).

Up to this point I have not heard of Honda making a Hybrid with anything but a CVT setup, but honestly, my experience and their lack of drive into this area has sort of turned me off researching what Honda is doing with their hybrids so I likely wouldn't know. Hyundia and Kia are doing more exciting things that Honda at this point, which is sad in some ways given they were the first to market with a hybrid in the US.

 

The Accord PHEV was a compliance vehicle. It was overpriced and sold in only two states; California and New York.

The IMA itself wasn't bad, but Honda's battery management was too aggressive. It would have killed packs in an HSD like system. The other issue was pricing the Civic hybrid the same as a Prius, but that goes beyond hybrids. IMA was available with a manual transmission on some models, and not just a CVT.

All the new Honda hybrid systems are full hybrids. The one motor, dual clutch system has a DCT, and is meant for smaller vehicles with its lower cost. The AWD one based on it appears to be meant more for performance; the Acura it was in had a V6. The dual motor one in the Accord would be better for the Ridgeline/Pilot for efficiency. Adding AWD to it shouldn't be difficult.

With low fuel prices, Honda doesn't feel they need a hybrid compete at this time, and a Ridgeline one would serve them better in the US. They are also focused on fuel cells. The Mirai's reception in the US might have delayed the introduction of the next Clarity, but they still need one for Japan at this point.

 

Take your friend to test drive one, make sure its a premium or advanced and is charged up for the test drive I bet it can sell its self

 

The big difference between the dual clutch system in the Jazz and the old IMA is the motor output. It has enough power to be a full hybrid. Their dual clutch and the system in the Ioniq/Niro are very close.

The dual motor has higher output for larger cars, but also more cost. The car size at which system would be used isn't known to the public. What would the next hybrid Civic have?

 

I'd be curious to learn more about Hondas hybrid system, but the dismal reliability and performance of the Civic hybrid causes me never to consider a Honda hybrid. My wife also had an '09 Civic. I hated the poor ride, touchy brakes and fast steering. The only good thing was it was easy to work on that car. The oil filter and spark plugs were very accessible. Contrast that to the Prius where you have to do a lot of disassembly to get to the plugs and changing the oil is a pain with that cover and replaceable oil filter element. Toyota needs to focus on maintainability.

 

The Honda CR-Z (sporty two seater) could be had with a manual, or CVT. The first gen Insight too, first came just in manual, then CVT option was added. I believe the manual versions tended to be tougher on the batteries?

 

If your friend doesn't live in a CARB state and trades out cars every 4 years, then letting them buy the Civic may not be that much more expensive, depending on what you mean by OTD....and let's face it, the delta between 40 on the highway and mid 50s isn't going to be a game changer for him if he's more interested in DRIVING than merely commuting.
In a Prius he might not even get mid 50's if he drives like a normal person.


The Civic is a REALLY nice looking car, but if you want to be a mensch remind him that Civics start out life in the LOW 20's, and he's going to take a heckuva depreciation hit if he buys a topped out Civic, because 4 years and 100,000 miles later it's still going to be..........a Civic.
That's not a pejorative.
There's a REASON that there are a buttload of them on the road......but all of those "gotta-have" options aren't going to be worth much in 4-5 years because by then they'll be putting those same options in Sonics and Yarises.

Bottom Line:
If a person doesn't know BY NOW the difference between a BEV, PHEV, Hybrid, EREV, etc.....then they don't WANT to, and trying to drag them into church now might cause them to dig in their heels until gas is back over $2.50.

Besides, there are worse looking cars that get a lot worse fuel economy.

Good Luck!
(to you both!)