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Chasm gets wider

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by Bob Allen, Feb 12, 2004.

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  1. Bob Allen

    Bob Allen Captainbaba

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    I just read a post from a guy who is giving up the wait and buying an Infiniti. My heart goes out to him. Odd symbolism in the name, "Infiniti" as a second choice since he was already waiting for an "infinity" for his Prius.
    My second choice would be a Jetta or Golf diesel, TDI. My partner has a Jetta wagon and it's a dynamite car, although more conventional than the Prius. A third choice would be the Focus with the new ZPEV engine that is the cleanest gas engine produced here. I'm not ready to quit, though, since I have no where near the waiting time some of you have.
    I don't mean to sound sour and I hope you all will take this with a spirit of generosity, but it's not easy for me, nor I suppose for the many others waiting endlessely for the Prius that may never come, to be reading questions from owners about tuning the Nav system or changing discs in the 6CD player, etc. It's a bit like being one of the guys in the boiler room on a ship reading the first class dinner menu. The chat line seems to be dividing into these two groups and I find myself reading more and more from those who are waiting and less and less about from those who already have cars. The chat line is for all of us, though, and I'm not suggesting changes or that people not contribute. If, as Danny suggested, Toyota is monitoring these chatlines, they should be aware of the immense disatisfaction that is being generated. They make excellent cars, but, you know, I'm reluctant to buy one of their other models because I don't want to "reward" them for this screwup over the Prius. It bothers me that they continue advertising a car they seem unable to produce.
    My dealer told me that he gets about 1 Prius a month; has 50 orders in his stack, and has been telling people the wait is three to four months. Go figure. I calculate about 4 years, but maybe my math is off. It's this kind of b.s. that makes me boil.
    The car may be all everyone who has one is saying it is. At this point, I feel a good deal of sadness and anger that Toyota and it's dealership network have done a terrifically Soviet job of promising a banquet and delivering peanuts. What's really frustrating is that there is no one to whom to address questions or get intelligent answers. Toyota of America might as well be on Mars. Do they sell cars on Mars?
    I'd be interested in hearing the stories from classic Prius owners who also had to endure long (8-9 mos) waits for their Prii.... How was that, folks? Was there the same level of uncertainty, gouging, anger, etc?. Now, of course, you can pick up a used classic Prius for a good price.
    Bob
     
    #1 Bob Allen, Feb 12, 2004
  2. Middle_Age_Moment

    Middle_Age_Moment Guest

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    Wow, Bob. I feel your pain!
     
    #2 Middle_Age_Moment, Feb 12, 2004
  3. johnp

    johnp New Member

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    Hi Bob, I know the feeling. I had a relatively short wait of 2 months (I'm not trying to rub salt in your woulds here) but during that time it seemed forever. The thing that made me nuts was the uncertainty. Can I trust the dealer to deliver? Would I do better with a smaller (or bigger) dealer? Are they this minute selling my car to somebody for an inflated price while I continue to wait? Should I get on the phone and shop till I find one? All these questions and no answers. I still don't have any answers but I'll tell you what happened to me.

    It turned out that the dealer did deliver the car I wanted. The price paid was the price agreed upon. In retrospect the wait seems like no problem. When you have your car in hand I think you may feel the same way. It is a beautiful car and it is worth the wait. As long as you're not out of transportation I think you should hold out for a Prius, there is nothing else like it.

    I think the number of unscrupulous dealers are over represented in these forums because outraged people are more likely to write than the satisfied customer. Hang in there!

    John
     
    #3 johnp, Feb 12, 2004
  4. sibtrag

    sibtrag Junior Member

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    This advertising bothered me as well. I went to the Toyota web site and asked them:

    The answer I received was pretty familiar stuff to us, and they ducked the advertising question.

    The underlined bits were links in the original.

    So, if they actually monitor this forum, they can ensure that my dealer never gets another Prius :x
     
    #4 sibtrag, Feb 12, 2004
  5. Bob Allen

    Bob Allen Captainbaba

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    Hi Prii: Here's a copy of a letter I wrote to my first dealer; a letter I'm sure many of you could write. I apologize if I'm taking too much space or making the chat line into a rant. What I'm hoping is that someone at Toyota of America will be reading this stuff, or someone out there wil have an address of a real person to whom we can write. Thanks all of you for your patience. Just hope my Prius comes before I get to old to drive it. Hugs to all of you for your support.

    Shane at Magic Toyota

    Dear Shane:

    First, thanks for contacting me regarding my letter to Lionel. After our conversation, however, I had some further thoughts. I am part of a national Prius chat line (priuschat.com), which I mentioned to you. I’m reading a growing (national) anger and frustration among the participants about the hype that is being given to us by the Toyota dealership network. A case in point: you told me that Magic Toyota is getting about 1 Prius a month (Lionel said as much some time ago) , yet your salespeople are telling us that the wait will be about 3-4 months, or, recently, 8-9 months. Maybe my math is off, but that would make the wait more like two to four years. How can dealers be telling customers this in good conscience? When we customers finally figure this out, as I have done, can you guys be surprised that we feel “had� We joked about that over the phone, but after I hung up, I began to wonder if I will ever see a Prius in my driveway....actually, I don’t have a driveway, but you get the idea.
    Buying a new car is stressful enough; it should also be exciting. This marketing vs. production fiasco doesn’t make me feel good as a potential Toyota customer, and certainly takes a lot of the excitement out of the car. I don’t feel happy to know that regardless of when I placed my order, “my†car can be sold out from under me to the first person walking in off the street willing to pay a hefty surcharge. You said this was simple market economics and I agree, that’s how the system works. If so, what’s the point of taking orders if there is no precedence and no way of getting a requested color/option package in the first place?
    I believe you also told me that it was pointless of me to call and inquire about “unclaimed†Prii. Where does that put me? I have no precedence on a waiting list and no way to inquire about when a Prius might be available.
    I have agreed that I would pay the $995 second sticker price if that might help get me into one of these elusive things in less than a year. I’m told that being flexible in what I will accept will also help me. I’m curious how my paying a surcharge will make any difference if you are only getting 1 Prius a month and there are at least 50 of us on your list.

    I’d certainly appreciate hearing from you if a car arrives.

    The above questions aside, I appreciated your calling me, and the friendly treatment my partner and I received at Magic. You might be interested in knowing that your competition, Toyota of Seattle, seemed less than interested in selling me a Prius. I had to hunt down a salesperson to even inquire about the car. The salesman took a brochure, circled options #1, #7, #9 and wrote prices above them. He said those were the only options available in the Pacific Northwest and that I’d have to make an appointment to drive one. Then he walked away. By the way, the prices he wrote down were above MSRP. Perhaps Toyota of Seattle was being honest, if impolite, about the market/availability situation (i.e., there was not enough in it for them to deal with the uncertainty, etc.).

    Sincerely,


    Bob Allen
    cc: Toyota of America
     
    #5 Bob Allen, Feb 12, 2004
  6. Stan Wilson

    Stan Wilson New Member

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    AMEN to all the above. Anger should be directed at Toyota for this poor rollout. I thought I placed an order with my dealer in early November..guess what, it means virtually nothing.

    Toyota needs to monitor the Prius chatline to see what they are doing to their customers...not only Prius, but for other models as well.
     
    #6 Stan Wilson, Feb 12, 2004
  7. yellowhats

    yellowhats New Member

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    Bob,

    Hang in there. I placed my order mid-August 2003 and took delivery mid-January 2004 and it was exactly the package and color I ordered. While I was waiting I was offered other colors and packages that became avaialable at another dealer, but I chose to wait since I plan to hang on to this car for a while.

    The car is definitely worth the wait (during the months I waited I thought about just going with another car). The Prius really offers a different driving experience than a conventional car.

    One thing you might try is calling around to some dealers in other regions to see if you can find a TRAC (Toyota Rental) car that you can buy when it becomes available.

    Good luck.
     
    #7 yellowhats, Feb 12, 2004
  8. jeffrey

    jeffrey New Member

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    My experience was the same as Yellowhats', I ordered in July and took delivery on Dec 17th, exactly what I ordered at the price agreed (slightly below msrp). It was well worth the wait, this is a remarkable machine.

    Because I enjoy cars, and the long wait gave me a little clue, today I got on the list for an RX400h. I am eighth, just as I was for my Prius, and the dealer expects to deliver around January :(

    I am not sure I will want to part with the Prius, but by then it'll have 35,000 miles on it, and I really would like a larger vehicle for the many hours I pass on the road. Can't leave the true hybrid, though, this traveling in stealth is just plain cool! :)

    Peace
     
    #8 jeffrey, Feb 12, 2004
  9. plusaf

    plusaf plusaf

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    Bob, this reminds me of the first car i ever bought... living at home, making good money, no social life to speak of, and dreaming of owning a corvette.... so i went to the local dealer and put a deposit on a '69 corvette in early december or so, 1968, with an anticipated 4-week leadtime. about three weeks later, the GM assemblers went on strike, and, wouldn't you guess.... the St. Louis plant [the ONLY plant that was making corvettes] was the last one to settle. the strike ended in august of '69; my car arrived about three weeks later, and i drove it out of the dealer's service bay in early september. they not only had refunded my deposit, they gave me some extra off for having waited so long!!!

    maybe the prius will be one of the LAST cars i ever buy, so this is the universe coming full-circle for me?
    :)
     
    #9 plusaf, Feb 16, 2004
  10. bbridgewater

    bbridgewater New Member

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    Hi Bob. Sorry to be in the same boat as you, although I can tell by your other posts that I'm in witty company. It's been almost 120 days for me. I'm borrowing cars and bumming rides and also wondering how much longer I can endure the Wait. If my Prius doesn't come soon, I may consider buying a Hummer (kidding!). Maybe we should start a bidding war for jeffrey's Black #9...sounds like his may be available before ours get here.

    Rowing with you....

    Beth
     
    #10 bbridgewater, Feb 16, 2004
  11. plusaf

    plusaf plusaf

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    #11 plusaf, Feb 16, 2004
  12. plusaf

    plusaf plusaf

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    #12 plusaf, Feb 16, 2004
  13. bbridgewater

    bbridgewater New Member

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    Thanks a lot Allen. (insert a sobbing, drowning in its own tears emoticon here)

    btw, where IS that emoticon, Danny? Us Waiters could use one!

    Beth
     
    #13 bbridgewater, Feb 16, 2004
  14. plusaf

    plusaf plusaf

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    LOL... thanks!
    +af
     
    #14 plusaf, Feb 16, 2004
  15. Danny

    Danny Admin/Founder
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    #15 Danny, Feb 16, 2004
  16. bbridgewater

    bbridgewater New Member

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    Wohh! For a minute there I thought my screen had become a mirror!

    You crack me up, Danny!

    Beth
     
    #16 bbridgewater, Feb 17, 2004
  17. XravenX

    XravenX New Member

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    The TDI pollutes more and the low sulfer fuel won't be out till 2007. Well, it will be but only in spotty locations.

    I had looked at the TDI first but the NO2 emissions and the particulate matter is just too high. They need to use fuel injection, fuel atomizers, and scrubbers to make diesel cleaner, then I would be all over one.

    Benz's new Grand Sports Tourer is a diesel hybrid but I am wondering what the exhaust system will do to curve pollution.
     
    #17 XravenX, Feb 18, 2004
  18. boa8

    boa8 New Member

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    #18 boa8, Feb 18, 2004
  19. cybele

    cybele New Member

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    Diesels available in Europe are far superior to those in the US.

    We have much lower quality diesel fuel which causes more pollution than a typical LEV car and diesels have a much smaller market share so are harder to maintain (fewer mechanics, not all service stations sell diesel, etc.).
     
    #19 cybele, Feb 18, 2004
  20. jrawles

    jrawles New Member

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    I'd like to try a 'modern diesel' such as a BMW 330d. Do you have one in the United States? Where did you get it? Did you import it yourself?

    I'm still waiting for my 2004 Prius but I'm starting to look for alternatives. I have 300k miles on my 1987 325 and I've been very happy with it.
     
    #20 jrawles, Feb 18, 2004
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