Certified IT folks... have some questions.

If it's any help, the IT field places somewhat less emphasis on
certifications and more on experience and general cluefulness. Yes,
there are some certifying bodies but it's fairly well known that
their tests are largely BS and only proves that the applicant is
a good memorizer/test-taker. Those certifying bodies pretty much
kicked down the door and told everyone they could that "we're going
to offer certifications! Sign up today!" whether it actually meant
anything important or not -- basically a contrived means to filter
out the real bottom-of-the-barrel idiots. Frankly, if I was a
hiring manager in that field, anyone who walked in with an MCS-
anything would likely be shown the door early in the process.
.
The notable exception to this might be cisco's programs, but may not
be relevant unless DH wants to become a router jock...
.
_H*

 

I'd say IT is a bit insecure right now because of all the offshoring. Saying "I want to get into IT" now is, in a way, like saying "I want to get into manufacturing" during the 80's. He may be able to pull it off, but it's risky.

That said, if he wants to get into the hardware/admin side of IT and is considering getting a certification, then he should go for the Microsoft Certified System Administrator (MCSA).

If you're researching tech, you'll find a lot of people enthusiastic about Unix and Linux, but the reality is that the vast majority of companies run on Windows networks. If you want to be marketable, that's what you'll want to pursue.

Other than that, the advice I would have is find a recruiter (don't reply directly to jobs on company websites) because they'll have far better social networking than you will initially, and will be able to submit you to a variety of positions if a single one doesn't work out.

Also, remember, getting your first job is the hardest. No one wants to hire someone with no experience, so you have to get a little lucky and maybe pound the pavement a long time. After that, however, it's all down hill. It's a lot easier to get employed with even a little experience under your belt.

By the way, if you're seeking a lucrative niche, you may consider learning SharePoint administration. SharePoint is becoming pretty pervasive for intranets, but not a lot of people are experienced using it. You can demand some pretty good rates, as a result.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hobbit @ Sep 4 2007, 11:07 PM) [snapback]507158[/snapback]</div>

Around these parts, it's hard to get a network admin type job without an MSCE/MCSA.

Different branches of IT vary, however.

 

My sister got her degree through Coleman College and has done well. She writes sql code for a credit card company and has a good healthcare plan and vacation time that increases every year. Supposed to have a good retirement plan too.

As to the direction, hmmm. Well, I do know that webdesign is still big. Companies that run their own servers need IT people.

A place like Coleman College will have several different tracks of specialization. They also have a good program to place their graduates with jobs. I have no idea if they are in your area but I'm sure there is something like them. You just have to find which is a good one. Coleman College, I.T. technical, something like that.

Apple offers their own "certification". I attended a 40 hour course one week. Had I chosen to continue and take a "test" I would have been certified for apple server OSX. Since I was there for information (I.E. servers weren't my job) I passed.

It does sound like he would rather do the hardware setting up and troubleshooting than software programming. No matter which direction he chooses, he does need to get back to school as things have changed since the 90s.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ Sep 5 2007, 05:51 AM) [snapback]507137[/snapback]</div>

Working in IT is like working in the building sector. You could be anything from a plumber to an architect. There is an enormous variety of jobs, although most people don't realize that. Say IT and people think PC's and networks, because that's what they can relate to.

One of the biggest problems that IT faces is spending all that IT money in a meaningful way. Meaningful to the businesspeople that do the spending. Unfortunately, many IT people don't really understand what business is about, they focus too much on the T in IT. Businesses don't earn money because they have PC's and networks. So now the T part is being outsourced increasingly to cheaper people. Which only lessens the spending problem, but it does not really solve it.

Bottom line: if you have a sound understanding of technology and REALLY understand what business is about, there is a lot of work out there for you. It's instructing the T people, making sure they do the right thing for the business and not the right thing from a technological point of view. It really does not matter where the techies live and work, in India or the US. Be prepared to travel... And don't expect to get this kind of work overnight, but it's the kind of position you can aim for in the long term.

Hope this makes sense.

 

One more small point: IT jobs split between techs who install and maintain, and programmers who write code. The tech jobs are more interested in certification, and even then it's not always necessary. In the programming world you are better off with a college degree. I was seldom able to hire programmers unless they had at least a bachelors degree.

Tom

 

Being a mechanic he already has the capacity to analyze problems logically and break them down into their basic components. That is critical for working in IT, no matter what field. I have often thought that if I did something different engine or transmissions mechanic would be very similar to the thought processes in programming analysis. One thing he might consider while getting an education is trying to get on with a company that has an IT help desk. They are usually entry level positions that don't require a lot of training, and he could probably advance quickly because of the turnover in those areas. The other thing it would do is get you in the door and give you an inside shot at IT positions that come open. Help desk work is not a lot of fun and can be frustrating at times, but it would get you in the door, which is a major step.

 

I have the Bachelor's in Computer Science. It still took me a while to find a job fresh out of college though (back in 1992). I've been with the same company for the last 12 years, so I don't know how friendly the job market is right now. I'd scan the want ads to get a feel for what companies are looking for now. I agree with hobbit that the certifications are ridiculous, but Boulder Bum is right too - the HR/management types that do the hiring place an undue amount of value on them.

Understand that the whole tech field is something of a moving target. As soon as you're an expert at one thing, it's outdated and you have to learn a whole new thing to stay useful. Kind of like learning hybrids after years of combustion engines.

What about combining tech and cars? With all the race shops around here, there was something on the news about one of the community colleges offering a program in that, and their graduates were in high demand.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Sep 5 2007, 08:28 AM) [snapback]507270[/snapback]</div>

Ooo yes. Especially, since doesn't DH already have Toyota certification as a Hybrid tech?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ Sep 5 2007, 09:28 AM) [snapback]507285[/snapback]</div>

This is exactly what I do. I would recomend that he start nosing around a bit and see what is available, sadly he will have to start with an entry level position untill he gets established, but that doesn't take all that long. The certifications mentioned are good (MCSE, Cisco), also there's the A+ certification, but they do cost and are not needed in the begining. By this I mean someone can come with a resume containing an MCSE and no experience will not get him that sys admin job, but a year or two on the job and getting that MCSE while working will move you up there, the same thing goes for the Cisco certification.

One more thing to keep in mind, you don't have to look in the traditional places, in my case, I work for an airline, who'd think airlines hire computer geeks, but some (well at least one ) is totaly verticley integrated, I'll bet this is the case in other industries as well.

Best of luck to you and DH.

 

along the lines of training other hybrid mechanics, this place does just that. Maybe it help the transition or copy him.

http://www.auto-careers.org/index.html

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ Sep 5 2007, 10:28 AM) [snapback]507285[/snapback]</div>

I have a Masters in CS and am a Software Engineer. But it sounds like you talking help desk / network stuff. I write programs, but we have a help desk that sets up our computers and troubleshoots basic network sutff. While an associates might help, you will most likely do well will either MCSA (mentioned above) or CCNA (Cisco Certified Network Associate) (mainly for networking). An A+ certification would be highly recommended (cover computer repair configurations and troubleshooting) this is the hardware side of it while CCNA or MCSA are mainly about configuring and setting up networks. Good luck, the market is not real great for IT right now but there is stuff out there. I don't care what anyone says though, IT is a stable field. Like doctors we will never need less IT people, I mean our Prii have computers in them!

 

Another perspective for you (from someone who considered these same options):

I went straight from high school to college for a BS in computer engineering (a 6 class difference from computer science, in that i got to do some hardware stuff too). When i was looking around for my first internship, i pretty much had two options: IT or R&D (programming). Looking more into the fields, here's how I ended up seeing them:

IT:
A basically easy field. Plug in hardware, maybe do some config stuff, and troubleshoot people's problems. In terms of what you do on the job, it's basically a bunch of reading manuals and looking up problems online (Hmmm... what does Window's Error code 1000008e mean? oh, looks like there's some bad RAM in the machine). Unlike working on Prii, there aren't very many truly interesting problems to diagnose. Everything has error codes, and they're all listed somewhere.

programming:
depending on where you end up working, this has a rather wide range of meanings. In some cases, you might just be doing bug fixes. Others, you might be writing entirely new applications. in my current job, i'm solving some dang interesting problems just about every day. It's entertaining and interesting, and i never get bored with the work


As far as the job market, programmers are in pretty high demand right now. I had no trouble getting my job fresh out of school 2 years ago. Since them, i've also fielded two separate offers from other companies and taken phone calls from a couple of different headhunters. I'm happy where i am, i'm doing great work. I don't think i've done a ton of networking since i graduated, so i don't really see why my situation would be much different from anyone else's in the field - it's not like i'm an expert in some rare specialty or anything.


On another note, i've been seeing a lot of interest in database experts (particularly Oracle) lately. Becoming a database guy might be the best of both worlds - you get the hardware aspect of getting to set up new servers, and the interesting challenges that comes with performance tuning various systems.

In the end, I feel it's more about the type of work you're looking for - something that presents you a new challenge every week that doesn't have a clear cut solution, or one thats more about diagnosing the problems and them implementing known solutions.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ Sep 5 2007, 09:28 AM) [snapback]507285[/snapback]</div>

This is exactly what I do. I would recomend that he start nosing around a bit and see what is available, sadly he will have to start with an entry level position untill he gets established, but that doesn't take all that long. The certifications mentioned are good (MCSE, Cisco), also there's the A+ certification, but they do cost and are not needed in the begining. By this I mean someone can come with a resume containing an MCSE and no experience will not get him that sys admin job, but a year or two on the job and getting that MCSE while working will move you up there, the same thing goes for the Cisco certification.

One more thing to keep in mind, you don't have to look in the traditional places, in my case, I work for an airline, who'd think airlines hire computer geeks, but some (well at least one ) is totaly verticley integrated, I'll bet this is the case in other industries as well.

Best of luck to you and DH.



<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ Sep 5 2007, 09:28 AM) [snapback]507285[/snapback]</div>

This is exactly what I do. I would recomend that he start nosing around a bit and see what is available, sadly he will have to start with an entry level position untill he gets established, but that doesn't take all that long. The certifications mentioned are good (MCSE, Cisco), also there's the A+ certification, but they do cost and are not needed in the begining. By this I mean someone can come with a resume containing an MCSE and no experience will not get him that sys admin job, but a year or two on the job and getting that MCSE while working will move you up there, the same thing goes for the Cisco certification.

One more thing to keep in mind, you don't have to look in the traditional places, in my case, I work for an airline, who'd think airlines hire computer geeks, but some (well at least one ) is totaly verticley integrated, I'll bet this is the case in other industries as well.

Best of luck to you and DH.

 

One more thing to point out:



The work in IT that you described generally falls under help desk/tech support/network manager.

A BS in computer science opens up anything from web developer to systems/application/client/server/database developer to software engineer.

Additionally, some of the top paying knowledge areas for this type of work are:


While i can't speak to the validity of the particular site i pulled these numbers from, they are consistent with everything i've seen in the industry over the past 7-8 years.

 

Didn't want to read the whole thread so this might be a repeat. I recommend Cisco certification. Work also in Voip (voice over I.P.) is an upcoming thing. Unix/Linux cannot hurt, there are tons of Windows admins out there, there is a crying need for unix administrators. Be aware that the low level jobs are going overseas at an alarming rate. I.T. workers overseas are ridiculously cheap. Their competency is often called into question, but, they work *cheap*.