Featured CATL has new 500 Wh/kg battery

It tends to make sense that we are seeing efforts to squeeze becoming the next focus.

Toyota has been dropping subtle hints about a greatly improved battery coming in the not-too-distant future. There was even that recent mention of a "200 km" pack targeted for upcoming PHEV use too.

Think about what that would do for a constrained platform like 4X uses. The biggest supposed shortcoming would become a think of the past without the need for vehicle production retooling.

Meanwhile, Toyota will be building reputation for quality & support... making the current effort to shakeout/refine software a good use of time.

 

Wasn't the first of the new battery starting in hybrids in late 2024, next year?

 

Are you talking about new batteries coming out of the NC factory or solid state batteries? Both aren't scheduled to be released until 2025.

Solid State: First Toyota with Solid-State Batteries Will Be a Hybrid
quote:"Back in 2020, Toyota said that it was working on prototypes powered by solid-state batteries, and now in a video interview with Autoline during the 2022 CES technology how, Toyota confirmed that it will begin selling vehicles with solid-state batteries by 2025."

NC Battery Plant: Bullish on HEVs, Will Toyota Leapfrog EV Tech with Solid State?
quote:"Meanwhile, Toyota is building a $5.6 billion battery factory for hybrids and for EVs in North Carolina, scheduled to begin production in 2025—focusing on lithium-ion rather than solid-state batteries."

All of this makes sense. If their solid state battery is something they want to keep close to their chest without getting dinged for lack of a tax credit, then sell them in hybrids. Could be the refresh for the Prius HEV. That's already air cooled, no extra packaging to be done.

I thought the first ones are targeted for aircraft. 1 1/2 times the density as the Tesla's 4680 cell is not too shabby.

 

Would like to see information that has not so far been released - specifically the cost of the new cells, charging efficiency, charge/discharge rate, safety ranges, and life cycles.

That they seem primarily destined for aviation at first suggests a rather high price premium.

Even in the absence of such data, good to see progress being made.

 

No one really knows. They were going to be in a bev in the first half of the decade (by end of 2025). They turned out to be too expensive, and they changed to hybrid. I don't believe they made any official announcement as to timeline, but my guess is this will be a small run until they can get the costs down. If its low volume they can eat costs as part of R&D expense.

Nio has promised a semi solid battery pack 150 kwh. That pack was quite expensive and purported to have 400 wh/kg. The new catl can provide a pack that weighs 20% less. My guess is 2024 production is also semi solid planned for this neo, then others as production costs fall. Aircraft and especially drones may love this battery and be able to absorb higher costs.

If we are talking non plug in hybrid, it seems lithium iron phosphate and perhaps some sodium ion for low temperatures might be best. This is not as energy dense but there is not a huge battery in non plugin hybrids. This is about as inexpensive and reliable as you can get if they get the sodium ion in good production.

 

CATL Announces New Batteries That Are So Energy Dense, They’ll Make Electric Planes Possible | Carscoops

Important reads from the article:
"CATL can achieve those impressive numbers thanks to new highly conductive biomimetic condensed state electrolyte technology that creates a micron-level self-adaptive net structure that can adjust the interactive forces within the chains to improve conductive performance."

-and-

"The batteries will also use ultra-high energy density cathode materials, and innovative anode and separator materials to offer good charging and discharging performance. In addition, those materials will help make the batteries safe, CATL says."

Lot's of "new" and "innovative" technologies so it'll be expensive and from their statement, normal charging capabilities as just about every modern battery tech has good charging and discharging capabilities - I'm thinking 100 - 150 kW charging. I'm sure these can be put in a high end PHEV as they only need something in the 25 to 30 kWh range to give it 93 km (58 miles) to 112 km (69.6 miles). Then it can improve packaging because of a smaller, lighter battery size. As @iplug stated there some other unknown capabilities like temperature sensitivity, temperature constraints, and from @iplug "charging efficiency, charge/discharge rate, safety ranges, and life cycles".

 

Yeah, right, they have also been marketing the Na-ion cell they announced a couple of years ago, haven't they?

The problem with almost any new battery technology is that there is always a "catch," and it never sees the light of day for that reason. There are hundreds of parameters for a battery technology to be practical, and even one bad parameter will make the technology impractical. Therefore, for probabilistic reasons, chances of a new battery technology being viable is as little as one in a million. I am pretty sure that this is the situation with this 500-Wh/kg battery. If something sounds too good to be true, it is.

This clip summarizes this philosophy:

 

Correct.

 

Thomas Edison on rechargeable batteries (also known as secondary batteries or storage batteries) in 1883:

"The storage battery is, in my opinion, a catchpenny, a sensation, a mechanism for swindling by stocking companies. … Just as soon as a man gets working on the secondary battery, it brings out his latent capacity for lying."

Thomas Edison 1883 interview on rechargeable batteries (PDF file)

 

And all ICE cars have had rechargeable lead-acid batteries for 100+ years, haven't they?
And what about all the subs in WWII?

Mike

 

That is not the point.

The point is that it is incredibly difficult to develop new rechargeable battery technologies.

The lead–acid battery was developed in 1880s, and it is still the standard battery for car electric systems. The lithium-ion battery was developed decades ago and the technology has still not matured.

If someone announces in the news that they have developed a breakthrough battery technology—as it practically happens everyday—take it with a grain of salt. I explained why above. Edison put a nice touch on it, which still applies to date, albeit he being entirely dismissive. There are dozens of publicly traded new-battery-technology start-ups today, and none has lived to its promises—yet.