Can-View Ideas

I have had the pleasure of meeting Norm and visiting his shop. He is quite open to ideas but also quite realistic about how much demand there is for them. He devotes a lot of time to new things, but if only a handful of people actually purchase them, he is out considerable investment as well as time.

This thread could be quite helpful, but I do not expect that Norm is anxious to make new things just to do that.

There simply is no product available which is sold in such small numbers with such high quality and which is given such personal attention as the CAN-VIEW in its various forms. Just the fact that we can consider expanding its offerings speaks to the good deal which this product is.

How about things which would attract people to owning a CAN-VIEW who do not yet?

Like displaying tire pressures from the Tire Pressure Sensing System. The Dealer's Scan tool does it when plugged in to the OBD2 port.

Or like theforce said graphically displaying the % of fuel in the tank which is a little more precise than the "guess gauge"

If there is real interest, Norm will listen.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Mar 7 2007, 04:20 PM) [snapback]401957[/snapback]</div>

I'd like to see altitude too. Also, if possible road inclination. Why? You might ask. Because, when I'm getting unusually poor mileage, I like to know if it's because I'm going uphill, or that wind conditions have changed. Some hills seem quite subtle in terms of seeing them. Of course, if altitude reading is sufficiently accurate, you can tell if you're going up or down hill.

That may not be possible with what comes from the OBDII connector though. I don't know.

Dave M.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Allannde @ Mar 7 2007, 04:17 PM) [snapback]401954[/snapback]</div>

It should be noted that although the tank % is displayed, it isn't always consistent. I doubt that it's the fault of CAN-View though. I suspect going up or down hill, or acceleration may result in a shift in fuel within the bladder that changes the reading.

I've had the reading go down by up to 3% and then go back to its original reading again.

Dave M.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Mar 7 2007, 08:20 PM) [snapback]401957[/snapback]</div>

If this were done, I would consider dropping $400-500 on the unit (w/ Nav integration). As it is right now, the data is neat but I wouldn't *want* to look at it very often. Extended ASCII line-art doesn't suit the Prius' beauty.

And as an owner of an '05, I'd want this while keeping the "V3" ability to integrate w/ the MFD and not require a separate LCD touch panel.

My $0.02. Even as-is, it's simply an amazing piece of work for hacking the essentially closed-box Prius.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(theforce @ Mar 7 2007, 05:20 PM) [snapback]401932[/snapback]</div>

Actually, I would like a feature that some of you already have, but was left off CAN-View V3 with the relay boards installed. I don't know why it was left off. Maybe just additional screens that require more programming. In the documentation, it was hinted that the "deficiency" was in the "current" version.

In any case, what I'm talking about is the mileage bars similar to the 5 minute bars on the regular MFD screen.
The mileage bars seem a lot more informative in terms of actual driving results.

Dave M.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(theforce @ Mar 17 2007, 10:09 AM) [snapback]407415[/snapback]</div>

OK. I was wondering about memory limitations, but didn't know for sure. But I won't convert to a plug in for at least a year. When I bought the car (~ 1 1/2 years ago), one of my thoughts was that the design was such that when the warranty runs out on the original batteries, if they go dead I would replace them with a new state of the art set of batteries, and maybe turn it into an electric. This was before I got onto PC, so I didn't know anything about plug-ins then. The hybrid still seems the best of two worlds (since I still intend to do some cross country driving), and the plug-in a step up from that. In any case I won't be retiring for at least a year, and won't be doing any conversion until then.

I understand Norm is working on a conversion himself. I would hope if he gets it done to his satisfaction, he'd publish an instruction manual for the conversion process.

Thanks for the clarification.

Dave M.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dmckinstry @ Mar 17 2007, 10:00 AM) [snapback]407443[/snapback]</div>

Hi Dave, it is a memory limitation with the V3 that forced two separate sets of code. The way the microprocessor manufacturer (Silicon Laboratories) markets their chips, you can't just buy the same version with more memory, they change the pin numbers and other functions at the same time which means a different PCB. I loaded your V3 with the relay code because you ordered the relays. But if you are not doing a plug-in conversion for a while, until then, why not buy that $35 USB programming adapter from Mouser or Digikey and download from my web-site the none-relay code that does have the bits you want, like the MPG screen.

Yes I am working on my own plug-in conversion and am documenting the whole process. I've started to add it to my web-site under 'plug-ins' but its a spare time work-in-progress. I am hoping to find time to get it running within the next 30 days, but building bigger packs out of used Prius NiMH battery packs and making them fit unobtrusively under the trunk floor is taking longer than I planned.

As to the graphical GUI, I considered that and priced it out but in these tiny quantities I couldn't build one at a price anyone is willing to pay. Which is probably the reason that we've heard nothing more about that neat Japanese CAN-view-like prototype.

I may find time to add the suggested performance page after I get the plug-in working as it might help document any performance changes. Added weight should translate into poorer acceleration unless the added power can compensate. Nobody seems to have documented this aspect.

Meanwhile the swamp is still full of alligators....

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eflier @ Mar 17 2007, 01:59 PM) [snapback]407534[/snapback]</div>

Hi Norm,

I'm glad to see you're keeping tabs on this thread.

I may just do what you suggest about getting the non-relay version of the code. I haven't checked yet. I assume you have both the non-relay and relay versions of code available, so I can reprogram when I get to that point.

As to your plug-in, how much storage capacity are you going to have?

I'm sort of hoping that by the time I get around to doing a conversion the Li-Ion batteries will have gotten to a more reasonable price.

Anyway, keep us up to date on your progress.

Thanks for CAN-View. I know it's a work of love, and not profit. At least not much of one.

I believe your alligator comment. I feel that way myself most of the time. I am looking forward to retirement.

Dave M.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eflier @ Mar 18 2007, 05:59 AM) [snapback]407534[/snapback]</div>

He already published the information at...
http://khb00465.atnifty.com/ms-1.html
(Sorry, Japanese page only)
You can find schematics too.
http://khb00465.atnifty.com/MS-1_1.pdf
http://khb00465.atnifty.com/MS-1_2.pdf

He is smart enough to integrate the CAN decoder and RGB signal generator into the single FPGA.
If you would like to get the programming code for the FPGA, I think he'll be willing to supply that.

Ken@Japan

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ken1784 @ Mar 18 2007, 12:53 AM) [snapback]407786[/snapback]</div>

Hi Ken, thank you for the link to his schematics. I have not disputed that it is technically possible to build a GUI capable of the higher resolution display this prototype (or that laptop program) demonstrates. Rather it is just my personal opinion that I could not build such a device at a price anybody is willing to pay.

To do this involves much more than just adding an FPGA or LCA to existing CAN-views. This isn't the place to go into detailed parts and assembly costs, but basically, it would also require a complete board re-design with a more powerful CPU with a wider address bus and bigger power supplies. Then use full surface mount to fit the 100 pin CPU and the 144 pin FPGA in the space. Then do 2 versions, one for the 2004/5 Prius to take advantage of the MFD and a second for the 2006/7 using a separate LCD (as the GVIF interface uses yet another high density Sony chip plus custom connectors that all appear difficult to source for production.) I have some experience in that I have designed boards that used 45,000 FPGAs in production runs. The key is that almost anything is economically possible if the numbers are there. I don't think for this niche market that the potential sales could remotely justify this investment. Are there thousands of Prius owners who would buy such a device if it could be brought down to $500? I think absolutely not. Not even hundreds.

I think Danny's current sale of Scan-Gauge IIs illustrates this: the real market readily accepts a device that is relatively inexpensive and has minimal install. The price and convenience far outweigh the lack of a GUI or any hybrid data.

This is why I am focusing on CAN-view more as an aid to plug-in conversions. If some other party wishes to build such a GUI-based device I commend them for it, but urge them to be cautious.

 

Just FYI...
I don't know about the parts cost, but he is supplying it about US$250 including installation service fee.

Ken@Japan

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eflier @ Mar 17 2007, 04:59 PM) [snapback]407534[/snapback]</div>

Very interesting reading! I like the idea of using the battery packs from the scrap yard.

I assume http://www.hybridinterfaces.ca/plufcontrol.html is coming next?

 

I just got my CAN View (V3) up and running last night, so for me, all is good at the moment! What a neat device. I actually managed to get it in and working in less than an hour. The gymnastics (and my thick fingers) were the only real challenges.

Right off the bat, I concur with two things, already posted above. I'd really like to see an altitude read from the NAV. The hand-held Garmin I used in my last car had that, and I miss it in the Prius.

Second, tire pressures would be very useful.

But hey, I'll be perfectly happy with this thing as it is right now. Well done Norm!