Can Honda Take Back the Green Lead from Toyota?

Much as I love my Prius and admire Toyota, I've harbored for the last three years the hope that Honda would gag on the success of the Prius and make it their mission to pull something better out of a hat. When nothing seemed to be happening with Honda after a couple of years, I kinda gave up.

Then, with the '06 HCH's very mild improvement, it made me think that perhaps both Honda and Toyota had come close to maxing out the capabilities of their respective systems, at least in terms of MPG within the confines of the kind of performance Americans minimally expect.

Even then, I've been mildly irritated with Toyota for NOT producing a somewhat downsized (compared to the Gen 2 Prius), lighter hybrid, slightly bigger than the Insight, with 4 seats, and MPG at least within earshot of the Insight. I know they could do this.

But Toyota is going down the path of employing the hybrid concept in the service of power/performance, at least so far, with the Highlander and Lexus, and using the V6 instead of the "breakthrough" Prius 4. I assume this is largely in deference to the North American market. And with the success of the Prius, Toyota can, for the time being, have its cake and eat it, too.

I talked with a Highlander owner a few days ago. He smilingly described his HH as "overpowered", its acceleration as "scary". And he gets only 25 MPG, barely satisfactory to him.

In this frame of reference, whick way will Honda go, if it can indeed produce this "next step" engine? To perhaps oversimplify (using 30%): an 85 MPG Insight, a 65 MPG Civic, or a 48 MPG Accord?

In any case, we can all see this as exciting news. I'm glad Honda is still in the game.

 

I get your overall point, however, Honda is still considered a greener car company than Toyota by the Union of Concerned Scientists -- their ratings come out every two years so we have to wait until the '06 model year is evaluated to be certain. They look at the entire fleet performance.

"TORRANCE -- American Honda Motor Co., today was recognized by the Union of Concerned Scientists (UCS) as the 2004 Greenest Automaker in the organization’s biennial ranking of car manufacturers’ environmental performance.

It’s the third consecutive number one ranking of Honda in the UCS study. Compared with the UCS’s 2002 findings, Honda actually increased its lead over other automakers in reducing both greenhouse gas and tailpipe emissions across the full range of its product lineup."

 

That is true in US but Toyota Prius came out in Japan before Insight.

Toyota is not behind in HCCI either. Toyota has been selling HCCI engines (diesel) since 2000. Although it only achieves half load and rpm (5 years ago), it might be enough for the next Prius. Let's say if Toyota use Li-ion battries that provides 55hp and HCCI engine can provide the other 55hp from the same 1.5L.

From the article I linked above:

A very light loads and idle are not a problem for HSD since the engine remains off unless the driver requests at least 16hp. This will likely to be entended to 25hp with a more powerful Li-ion pack. The only remaining issue is the engine warm-up. Will a bigger Thermo bottle be enough? Probably not, see below.

According to this article:

This could mean:
1) We'll never have to change the factory installed spark plug since usage is limited.
2) There can be only one coolant for HCCI (gas engine) and the Power Inverter since HCCI operates at lower temperature. Lower maintainence.
3) Better MPG on the highway! 20% better efficiency means 61 MPG for Highway.
4) Engine warm up will still kill the mileage. :angry: Exhaust Heat Recovery System (EHRS) can help -- it was included in the Concept Estima HSD minivan in the recent Tokyo Motor Show. I hope you find this post informative.

[Broken External Image]:http://home.nyc.rr.com/tewedding/HSD/Estima_EHRS1.JPG
[Broken External Image]:http://home.nyc.rr.com/tewedding/HSD/Estima_EHRS2.JPG
[Broken External Image]:http://home.nyc.rr.com/tewedding/HSD/Estima_EHRS3.JPG
[Broken External Image]:http://home.nyc.rr.com/tewedding/HSD/Estima_EHRS4.JPG
[Broken External Image]:http://home.nyc.rr.com/tewedding/HSD/Estima_EHRS5.JPG

 

p.s. you cant expect new prius every 2 years, it doesnt happen that way... Model life is at least 5 years so manufacturer can recoup their engineering costs.

Toyota and every other manufacturer could probably make thousand changes to their cars every single year, but it is so expensive that unless there is something terribly wrong, they wont change a thing.

In fact, new 2006 is pretty nice upgrade when it comes to facelifts since it adds much better interior materials, gets more back head space while also adding more technology...

 

It's coming up on 3 years when it hits 2006. NHW20 been out since 2003 in Japan.

 

I think that it'd be cool if they added a switched reluctance generator to the Prius. Seems like it would be a pretty cheap way to bump up the MPG. What do the gear heads think?

For more on what an SRG is check out this link:

http://www.greencarcongress.com/vehicle_systems/index.html

Unfortunately, they no longer have a link to the article on it's own page. The article in question is about half-way down. Search for the word "Tigers".

If you're a tech head this might be your cup of tea:

http://delphi.com/pdf/techpapers/2002-01-1087.pdf

 

Direct Link

 

just because its there, that means it has to be used right?

my neighbor has a hy-hi and he gets abouts 35 mpg. drive like a fool and you get your Prius down to 35 mpg as well.

aint no design karma gonna be able to wipe out the programming of the strongest computer in the world...the human mind

 

Hey that's pretty cool. It looks like it converts the exhaust air flow to electricity. Sort of a mini wind mill. They can use this electricity to heat up the engine.

P.S: Didn't Delphi file chapter 11?

 

A "Toyota Insight" (looks like an Insight but uses HSD) would be very groovy. When I first heard of the Prius I hoped that's what it would be. If one were available I'd be tempted to buy one for my GF.