Well sadly, its time to say farewell to my 2002 Prius. I recently went through a string of repairs including ECU, inverter, air conditioning system and wheel bearings. Now the joint near the exhaust mainfold just developed a microscopic hole, but its weird because you can't hear anything, but the exhaust leaks straight into the interior, and is a health hazard that I will not tolerate as it puts my wife's life in danger. Engine and Transmission have been perfect. She drives in EV mode for over 2 kms every time. However, the cost of repair is more than I am willing to put into this car anymore. I tried every means possible, but was finally told by Hybrid Specialist Mony Sora here in Concord, Ontario, and even he said to walk away. I have now put her up for sale, and going to keep our 2002 Chrysler Neon. It has been amazingly reliable and much cheaper to own than the Prius. Just bad luck I guess. I will keep tabs on all of you, and if you need any help with Nav or other issues, I will be happy to help. Thanks to John, Tideland, Joe, and all you other awesome folks who have helped me over the years. You guys are a stellar group, but I am afraid, that its time to call it quits with the Prius, and move on next year to a Chevrolet Volt or a Plug-in Prius.
The CO risk has me a little concerned because it can be fatal to the next owner. Parting out the car makes a lot of sense but it isn't clear how to tag the exhaust leak. . . . Perhaps enlarge the hole enough that the noise would make it obvious? Regardless, I'm glad you've had the Prius experience and can speak from personal experience. Bob Wilson
Concur.... Make sure that you disclose the leak and wag your finger at the prospective new owner and tell them that...no kidding!!!...an exhaust leak in a car is a really REALLY good way to take a dirt nap. I'm sure that you were planning to anyway but there are people who will roll the dice on stuff like that if you know what I mean. I'm sure that with the windows cracked or open(depending on how 'microscopic' the leak is...) the exhaust gas issue may be mitigated however (comma!) up in Toronto there aren't as many 'windows down' days as there are in say........Ari(d)zona. Just sayin'. I'd disclose it in writing in case the new owner, or their PNOKs (Primary Next Of Kin) have selective memory. Good luck with hybrid 2.0!!! Now that the Pip has been out long enough for all of the early adopters and carpool cheats to get theirs, the price is starting to drop off a little. I even find myself daydreaming lustily about getting one....but it's a little out of my depth band for right now, but you might find a way to stick one in your garage. I like the Volt but if the Pip is out of my depth band, then the Volt is even more so. Anyway...Good Luck again with the pending sale and the prospective new car!
Can you describe the location of this leak any more clearly? I'm curious whether it could be a weak spot worth looking at. If you ever decide to part the Prius rather than selling it outright, it seems like you had added a lot of interesting electronic doodads that might be worth mentioning here. Cheers, -Chap
Hi guys, I have indeed declared the exhaust leak. Its amazing though, nobody seems to care. They hyperventilate over battery issues, even when the car clearly drives in electric for the vast majority of the test drive. One guy even said he wants me to guarantee that the battery will not fail. He fails to realize that I am not a dealer. One guy offered me $2500 for it, and said that his reasoning was that he was going to have to replace the battery anyway so that is why he lowballs me, and said its a solid offer and I should take it. Uhhhh, yeah right. I tell them there are many other things to worry about on a hybrid, but they simply worry about the silly battery, which is in absolutely fabulous shape! They love the navigation and bluetooth, but I took out the iPod kit, video input cable, Navigation Microphone kit from Japan and Bongiovi DPS amp. Have not decided if I am going to sell it piece by piece, or simply give to my dad for his Highlander Hybrid. Anyway, just thought I would share my tales of amusement. In the mean time, I have looked at the PIP and am not convinced its the right car for our needs. Our drive exceeds the 18 km range of the PIP. The range of the Volt is more inline with our needs. I also loved the superior handling of the Volt and the standard equipment. I know it only carries 4 people and I have to fill up with Premium gas, and I get about 38 mpg vs 50 mpg in the PIP, but the powerful acceleration of the Volt, plus its ability to hold an honest 115 km/h without strain unlike the PIP is a definite plus for me. The car in white sold my wife. LOL! I also wanted to take a moment to thank Bob Wilson, the man by whom so many of us, regardless of generation or model of Prius, depend on and are frequently amazed by. He is simply tireless in his pursuit of unravelling and extracting the very most and best from these machines. I hope to one day be able to meet him in person, whenever I am in his area again. But this group and I are hardly parted, but just great friends regardless of Volt or PIP.
Excellent! I am a great believer in 'the right tool for the right job' . . . my other excuse for buying more boy's toys at Harbor Freight. I'm about 4-5 years away from reaching Social Security age and if it were not for the airplane, my second perfect job would be a pool of hybrids, each leased for one year, with a task of: Accurate, independent metrics User tweaks and tuning for vehicle performance A "<hybrid> for Dummies" book for each one But I have this airplane . . . Bob Wilson ps. I was just lucky to have been taught by so many Prius pioneers. Doug, Hobbit, Patrick, Graham, others whose names and posts are found in "Prius Technical Stuff" . . . true pioneers who often did the first experiments that were often my road map to where to look.
Now I'll look forward to reading about all sorts of unexpected ways to trick out a Volt.... On your Classic ... where's the exhaust leaking from? -Chap
The Volt will be an interesting nut to crack. I think my first mod will be a solar panel roof, ripped off of a Fisker Karma LOL! As for the exhaust, the funny thing is it sounds like the manifold area, but I can feel absolutely no leak whatsoever. I only hear it when I first start it up. After the initial startup, it quiets right down to a smooth purrrrr! I even put it into Maintenance Mode, and revved it up, in Park of course, and no extra noise whatsoever. Revs smoothly and normally. That is what is so confounding. You can only hear it initially, especially from underneath the car, you can smell all the time, but the sound a conventional car would make with a leaky exhaust is simply not there. The leaky sound is only present at startup. Crazy! I thought it might be a faulty EGR hose somewhere, but again, traced up and down, nothing. I am totally stumped. Fuel economy is totally unaffected, and a solid 48 mpg even in 1-5 degree weather. What is funny though is how the car is behaving. With all the new parts in her, she drives like new. It is almost sad to get rid of it. Just washed it, and she looks brand new.
Oh I just found out a few minutes ago, there is one scenario where it makes just a bit more noise than normal. When I turned on the A/C and accelerate up a hill, the noise is definitely there. It seems that under load, it will cause the extra noise to surface. Any thoughts?
Just had my '06 in the shop for a noise at startup that went away within 30 seconds, the donut between the exaust manifold and the exaust was disintegrated, 90$ for the part, a couple hours of driving to get it heated into shape(after installation) and I'm happy, the shop said it stocks all the toyota exaust donuts because they replace them all day long. On my way to the shop I did smell or sense fumes.
I'm surprised you had such good luck with an '02 Neon. I had an '03 Dodge Neon that gave me a ton of problems (brakes, emissions, trans.), which is why I traded it in for the '11 Prius
Neon has actually been amazingly reliable all these years. About 2 months ago a rad hose cracked, but otherwise, she has been outstanding. The fact that it is an extremely rare LXi model (special order from the factory only) makes it a shock for many people. It has factory navigation, leather seats, gauge cluster from the 300M, special super gloss black paint, leather inlays in the doors and real wood trim. Only 150 of them were made globally. Chrysler Canada still sends me letters every year asking to buy it back, I refuse. I have heard Neon's made in Mexico are hit and miss, while the one's made in Detroit were pretty bullet proof. As you said, maybe lucky, but it is still quite the car. The Neon and Prius always got the same reactions. Prius would always get people to be like... "Oh this is a Prius... Cool! How much does the battery cost to replace?" I usually laughed at that. The Neon everyone was kind of like... OH this is a Neon? What a 2002? Can't be! I have really enjoyed both cars a lot, if nothing else than the shock factor. They are both really something else!
Interesting.... I would consider it, but the bolts are really rusty. What would you advise in terms of a replacement procedure? Leave it for a week soaking in rust buster then give it a try? I am afraid of opening up a Pandora's box of problems by working on it anymore. I can take a picture of the area, and then you guys can see if its worth looking at. Oh and was the work done at the dealer or at a garage?
Actually, I just thought about it, I will buy some exhause tape, and wrap up the joint, purely as a test. If the smell goes away, then I know for a fact that is the problem. I will go to some shop and get them to swap it out. Thanks for the idea. That at least will put my mind at ease in case the person that buys it next decides to go on the cheap, and finds him/herself taking an early dirt nap. I will keep you guys posted.
Hi John, how has life been with the Volt so far in terms of EV mileage? I mean strictly on a mileage basis, are you able to squeeze any more than the 35 miles out of it? I know the 2013 can now do 38 miles, but like the Prius, is there any way in your experience to beat that number at all? Or is that a lofty number? Just curious. I would like to know what to expect.
I normally get about 45 miles EV per full charge. I have plenty of public charging opportunity so I don't really get a chance to test that as often lately. Last time I actually ran out of EV and kicked in the ICE I was slightly over 50 miles, about a month ago. I am in pretty ideal temperatures for the battery, so you shouldn't expect the same.
I "only" get around 43miles after it learned my driving style/conditions. Today was a good one: with a gas avg. of about 41mpg. I decided to try regular grade without ethanol for this current tank to see if it makes any difference. Mlibanio, I typically netted 46-48mpg calculated in my GenIII but beat EPA numbers in my Volt. <shruggs> I've never been below 37EV miles since buying it and that figure was the first day based on previous dealership demo drives.
Yow, did they sell you more than just the donut gasket on that job? There are two donuts, one between manifold and front pipe, one at the rear end of the front pipe to the muffler pipe. Looks like about $33 for the front one or $14 for the rear one, at Toyota of Puyallup. Should that turn out to be the problem, it doesn't sound like a difficult fix. (Even if the rusty bolts ended up destroyed, they're just $3, with the springs $3.25 if they're needed for some reason. Yeah, try soaking in PB B'laster, or heat....) Maybe you could spot a leak with the engine off just by (slightly!) pressurizing the exhaust system from the tailpipe and listening/feeling for a hiss. Or with the engine running, a thermal imager might show a hot plume next to the pipe somewhere. -Chap
