Big 3 - Thumbs Up or Down?

Another self proclaimed "expert" spreading urban-legend type bs, I suppose to him a camry is state of the art and cutting edge or maybe a scion. He is definitely part of the problem with not just the auto industry but America in general. He is full of hate towards Detroit and if he was really questioned on the subject would not even know why other than what is trendy and third party bs. I would love to take the labels off the cars have him drive a malibu and a camry, see what the mpg was and then get his honest opinion. Pathetic and down-right dangerous that someone with so little knowledge can be read by so many people.

 

I do not know I think he's got some good points... innovation seems to be putting refrigerators and flip down tvs to keep the kiddies occupied. Hell his hate seems to be a lot of the same hate I have due to the idea of the government bailing them out "due to the loss of jobs"... we tried to bail out the financial sector (still trying apparently) although the crying banks say thank you then turn around paying off their stockholders, and corporate bonuses. The same thing will happen if we keep "detroit" affloat.

They obviously have a poor business model now, yeah there are lots of jobs tied up in them, but is it really the government's job to keep a few companies together? Especially when they get the title of "mega corporation"? Shouldn't these companies be self sufficient as it is? Use whatever money to keep them affloat and start a New Deal type of thing if you're worried about jobs rather than shovelling money at failing companies just to keep them affloat long enough to cry and ask for another handout.

As to the "expert" comment, it's an op-ed piece, as a result expertize of their subject is not ever implied.

 

What vitriol!
Sure, the big 3 are a problem, and much behind the times. but they still sell collectively most of the cars americans buy, and the cars cost less than those European sleds with their own mechanical and reliability problems.
The tone of this article is horrible, and he signed his name to it.
I wonder what sort of stuff he writes in blogs under a pseudonym!

 

Here is the bigger question Wth happened to GM, last time I checked they were bragging that they still have the # 1 market share in the world. What are they doing selling these cars cheaper then it costs to make them just to keep market share. Ford really seems like they are just a step away from turning things around.

 

How would you like him writng editorials about the industry that you work in? I heard Ted Turner on Lou dobbs Wed night going off in about the same way, never a counter view, just allowed to spew on and on.

 

I think they took into account the heavy equipment arm as well as the financial portion. The Loan for the vehicles they sell. Was actually a good idea until people went tits up.

As for employment. Would you rather extend a persons unemployment benefits in to the future and have them sit around and bitch about how bad they have it or would you rather get a small or break even return on the money going out.

You have to remember we'll end up with the health care any way(they will end up on assistance). Not to mention the boomers who are going to get medicare shortly. Then you have to figure in 3mil people not paying in to Social security and state and I think you get the big picture.

I think with this money going out we should get a minimum return to help with social security - medicare - or reduce the deficit. There needs to be Accountability.

 

Health care and legacy costs. The cost of health care has gone throught the roof, and the legacy costs were set up when GM, Ford and Chrysler held 80-90% of the US market. If they still held that this discussion would not be happening.

I have a question for all of you, if the Detroit 3 still held 90% of the US market would you be better off today? Would you be better off if the US had run a trade surplus equal to 10% of the gdp over the last 30 years instead of a deficit? You would have less choices in the marketplace, the quality would probably not be as good, but would you be better off economically? The trade deficit is $2-3 billion a day and the auto-related deficit is $2-3 billion a week.

 

There are at least two good reasons to bail out Detroit.

The first is the PBGC -- Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation. As I understand it, we (the taxpayers) on the hook for making good on most of their pensions anyway. So it might be cheaper to keep them in business, if they can make enough to pay some or all of their pension obligations. In some years, GM's contribution to its pension funds was nearly $25B. I have no clue how large the net present value of the total pension obligations is, but it's a fair bet that it's over $100B. Maybe most of that is covered by what's in their pension funds now, but I'd doubt that.

The second is that GM will need the bailout in order to go bankrupt as a Chapter 11 (reorganization), rather than Chapter 7 (liquidation). To go the Chapter 11 route, they need short-term financing, and from what I read (for what it's worth), they don't have enough collateral to be able to attract private financing of that. In other words, they don't have enough money to go bankrupt gracefully. It would be unbelievably wasteful to liquidate GM due to the lack of short-term financing.

In my opinion, what ought to happen here is a government-financed bankruptcy, Chapter 11, with the government as partner to ensure that the pain is spread around heavily and evenly. None of this crap like we're doing with AIG, where, as a consequence of losing $150B, they are considering cutting management bonuses next year a bit.

 

It's about JOBS--for heaven's sake. Nobody cares about GM, Ford and Chrysler. Or their dumb executives. What they care about are the people who work for these companies. Why else would the Democrats be supporting some relief? For the workers, of course. For jobs.

Jobs and credit are the biggest concerns right now.

 

Thumbs down. The Big Three have been asked repeatedly to build "form follows function" fuel efficient vehicles. They have been hogs feeding at a subsidized trough for too long. Only when the automatic feeder stops working do they bother to look up and wonder why? Toyota and Honda have been on the cutting edge for some time. Detroit has lobbied against their efforts repeatedly, i.e., crushing the EV1, total disregard for air quality, impacts of sprawl, etc. Time to retool to build light rail and high speed rail for a 21st century transportation system. We do not need more individual vehicles or more lanes.

 

2 thumbs down, way down. If the govt bails out the big 3, who's next? Housing industry? Private education? Food & drug giants? Forestry and lumber? Failed pro sports teams? There will be others falling in behind the big 3 for free handouts in the soup line.

It's about jobs? So what! These companies wouldn't completely go out of business ... they would lay off, restructure, streamline, maybe even try to increase sales by finally building high quality products. There's a concept! Some would lose their jobs ... tens of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands. But America has always proven to be resilient. The affected job force would find jobs in emerging auto companies (such as Aptera), perhaps even Toyota's or Honda's American plants. Over the next decade or so, there will be growth in the alternative energy industry, even in nuclear power. These industries will need to hire engineers, mechanics and electricians and will offer some degree of re-training.

So, all will not be lost. I'm an optimist and believe that if they play their cards right, GM, Ford, Chrysler will emerge leaner and better, with an accompanying growth in other American industries. No government bailouts needed.

 

FU to the Big 3 and Congress

Let them go down and rot in hell like they deserve. It infuriates me that I, as a taxpayer, have the foot the bill for the incompetence and greed these morons have exhibited for decades. They got themselves into this mess, let them figure out how to get out of it without handouts from taxpayer. It makes me want to vomit.

I can't wait to see how they piss away the billions of dollars they will be getting. After the cooperate officers skim a few billion off the top to reward themselves for the outstanding job they have been doing and sock away their 8 figure retirement plans I'm sure they will embark upon a program of more of the same. First thing up will probably be a twin axle Hummer H10000 with a fire breathing 12L V-12. And I'm also quite sure the elected scumbags in DC (who are beholden to the auto industry lobbyists) who are pissing our tax dollars away will just give them the money with absolutely no oversight or anybody being held responsible for the handouts.

The sad thing is no matter how much money you throw down the bottomless pit that is GM, Ford and Chrysler they will end up broke again in a few months and be back for their next $25B fix. They still have no idea what they are doing and they still build no good, piece of sh$t crap cars. Any chance I ever buy a car for these slimeballs again just went out the window with this latest rape of the US taxpayer. I'd sooner buy a used Yugo from a junkyard before I'll ever drive a GM, Ford or Chrysler.

 

Nothing but excuses, the bottom line is that these companies DID NOT invest the money properly that was meant to be put away to pay for these costs. And again if GM still has the greatest worldwide marketshare then they should not only be profitable but also be the most profitable. I am by the way for the government to help bail them out but with stipulations such as not one single executive from should receive any type of bonus until they have a 4 straight quarters of profitability

 

The big three should not get a dime until the CEO's and the upper management for the last 20 years accept blame for their decisions, liquidate all their ill gotten gains from the corrupt decision making(including their mansions and grandchildren's trusts), and then contribute all those assets into the kitty that they are asking taxpayers to contribute to.

 

I do not know I think he's got some good points... innovation seems to be putting refrigerators and flip down tvs to keep the kiddies occupied. Hell his hate seems to be a lot of the same hate I have due to the idea of the government bailing them out "due to the loss of jobs"... we tried to bail out the financial sector (still trying apparently) although the crying banks say thank you then turn around paying off their stockholders, and corporate bonuses. The same thing will happen if we keep "detroit" affloat.

With the financial sector, the problem is that the guy running it all is not trying to protect anyone but his buds on Wall St. A bail-out can work, if you make the companies accountable for making progress.

I would note that the two bail-outs are intertwined. A bank could still loan money to GM if they wanted to and make money. The problem is that the banks won't lend money to even the businesses that are doing well, much less Detroit's Big 3. That's a major part of GM's problem- they have lots of assets, but no one really wants used manufacturing plants in the US. Mergers are more fun and make more money in the short-term. Secretary Paulson just gave the money to the banks, who are using it to buy up each other and give out exec bonuses and stockholder dividends. All wasted because this Administration believes that bankers and businessmen always make the right decision. Bush himself said so just yesterday or the day before.

And if GM goes belly-up, their retirees go on Medicare and Medicaid. Their pensions (albeit reduced but not much- the average is less than $50K now after 30 years) will be paid for by the taxpayer. So all those who don't want to give GM money so they can get rid of their legacy costs- fine. Just know that the taxpayer gets to pay anyway!

The fact is that American workers can make high-quality products- if it is required of them. But high-quality products are expensive to make. In most things, that's not a really big issue. In cars, planes, computers, big-ticket items in general, it is a really big issue. Yep, a broken toy causes crying. A faulty switch in a car engine or fuel tank in a plane causes a lot more crying.

Does anyone else remember the Hyundai Excel? We were all pretty convinced South Korean autoworkers couldn't make good cars. Nowadays, Hyundai makes some of the most reliable cars on the road. Did Hyundai suddenly find a whole new bunch of workers? Nope, they just decided to make a high-quality car. There is no reason that Detroit couldn't do the same. Ford could really make quality job one. GM could really be committed to excellence. Chrysler could decide they want to make the most reliable cars rather than the least reliable.

 

Hey I got an idea..
Why doesn't the Government make the top brass put their 6 figure bonuses and income back into the company first, then offer a token snippet of a handout to help?
That' called paying forward. What a novel idea!

 

Mitsubishi, izusu, what ever. You didn't answer the point. By the way, it's a hole that GM is in, not whole.

Ever notice how GM'ers what to blame retirement costs of the hourly as the cause of their demise? ... GM manages to have a GREAT alibi why they fail, instead of a plan for greatness. GM's failure alabi is never the 100's of millions spent on salaries of GM's officers/directors over the past half dozen decades. GM's failure is never caused by their short term profit/greed, never poor quality, never GM outsourcing. Ask a GM'er what the sollution is to the Prius? You hear, "well Toyota sells gas guzzlers too" ... or you hear, "we need to have an embargo against the Prius" ... in essence, forcing citizens to buy GM. Great answers on the ever downward spiral. Inexplicable.