Battery Changes/Replacements

Battery as in the Hybrid battery or the aux battery?

The hybrid battery you can get from http://www.trademotion.com/partlocator/ind...005&catalogid=1 for $2388, plus labor. I guess under $3k? Another source is eBay. I sort of remember galaxee saying there were 2 known hybrid battery failures in the US both cover under warranty. But don't quote me on the number.

The OEM aux battery is something like $100+.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ScottY @ Jul 26 2006, 02:22 PM) [snapback]292675[/snapback]</div>

I remember that, too (that galaxee said there were two replacements in all of the US). Since NONE of the Prii (at least Gen 2s) are out of battery warranty yet, this is not something that anyone has yet had to deal with (i.e. paying for a battery). If/when that happens, it is highly likely that battery costs will be way down from their costs today (just using what's happened in the past as a guide).

Just a couple of other things to point out: the battery is moduar, so there is a reasonable chance that, if someone's battery was giving them problems, they'd only have to replace one or a few cells. Also, the Prius is very good about protecting the battery, so not many people are anticipating problems.

Why do you ask? You looking at having to replace a battery?

 

I haven't heard anyone on these boards having a gen2 that have had a battery change, even under warranty. I think Toyota over protects the battery but it's probably good so that people's imprssion can change.

As the battery can be made modular it shouldn't be too bad replacing the ones that are failing

 

To comments about battery being modular. Do the techs have a way to check which cell is bad? r they willing to find out which cell is not taking charge?

i m saying that becaues i work with production line techs. usually they just change the whole unit instead of finding out which component is bad. that way is easier for them and faster to get the job done. as in our case, the techs are not the one who's paying for the battery. it will be either us or Toyota who's paying.

 

i actually got that number from a post of efusco's a while back. maybe he can verify what he knows. evan?

what i recall was one here, replaced under warranty... and one that evan mentioned, something about a plug in mod or some other kind of modification.

actually there has been one failure we know of due to running out of gas and running the HV battery charge too low for for the HV charging unit to rescue, but this was in a classic prius. the new models have a different battery program, supposedly to protect it more but hey why take your chances with running out of gas.

otherwise, one other scenario may be that the company decides to just change out the battery rather than send out the regional guy with the HV charger, it's actually technically cheaper to just replace the battery than send out the dude with the charger (airfare, hotel, etc). but i think they avoid that- you know how the media spins things.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ScottY @ Jul 26 2006, 02:02 PM) [snapback]292701[/snapback]</div>

The determining factor is what Toyota considers to be the field replaceable unit. Is this at the module level or the full battery pack.

 

I may have a free hybrid battery replacement soon, IF....

OK, here we go. I can't get help from any national Toyota rep so I'm counting on you guys. This seems like your basic dealer nightmare....

I bought my 2001 Classic from Carmax on March 31st, 2007 and drove it over 500 miles in 3 days. It easily averaged 50 mpg overall, up to 60 mpg at times, with no problems or warning symbols that I could detect.

Then I took it to a local Toyota dealer for a full checkup, and now it's been in their shop 2 weeks, and they can't tell me when I might get it back.

The dealer said they found a stored trouble code, and it needed new injectors and a new computer for free under Toyota warranty. They did the work, and replaced the aux battery, and now it won't start.

So they loaned me a new Camry for free and I'm still driving it today, April 18th, 2007, but I can hardly afford the doubled fuel cost.

I visited the dealer yesterday, including 4 levels of mechanics and managers, and they say the hybrid battery is dead, and they've been trying to start it everyday but it won't "catch." They've been trying to get hold of the only hybrid battery charger in the region to see if it can be charged, and if it can't, they'll replace it free. But they can't get the charger because it has to be accompanied by a trained technician.

I trust this dealer because a friend has been satisfied with their service on her Corolla for 15 years, but I need my Prius back and running, and the dealer isn't making any progress. I want to be driving my Prius when I'm making payments on my loan, and when I buy the extended Carmax warranty this month, but the dealer just says "keep enjoying that free Camry, and you're gonna have a great car." But WHEN?

From reading Priuschat, I also think mine has missed out on a number of recall repairs, such as the steering box.

The Carmax 30-day warranty runs out soon, but Toyota doesn't seem to be following through on its responsiblity to fix the hybrid system.

You guys got any advice? Is there a national rep I can contact to get the charger and my Prius together? Is this dealer trying to "wait me out," or should I just chill and look forward to a great car that has had expensive repairs done for free?

Now that I've posted this, I bet I'll get good news from the dealer tomorrow.

Is anyone else going through this?

Thanks, guys.

 

If you can get a printout of the SOC and all the battery-block
voltages and post 'em here, the electrical mavens hereabouts can
perhaps take a look. It does sound suspiciously like the dealer
techs are missing something really basic. And it's already been
proven that Toyota's hoo-ha magic charger isn't needed to push a
little charge into the HV battery -- enough to start the car and
let it take over.
.
_H*

 

well, the regional guy does have the charger, and it's proven to be faster and cheaper overall to just replace the hybrid battery. they should know this, if they're interested in their own profit they should replace it, get the rental back and be done with it. kinda sounds like they don't know what they're talking about... what isn't "catching" exactly? something's not adding up. like, how'd they discharge the battery in the first place? has anyone connected a scantool to check for codes to say the battery is dead? anyone checked voltages?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tlditku @ Apr 18 2007, 10:48 PM) [snapback]425763[/snapback]</div>

You have got to let us know how this situation works out. How a vehicle goes from 50 mpg to a service code reading taking out the hybrid battery is incomprehensible and must be rectified by the dealer in good faith.

 

Here is data from a live laptop printout of my 2001 Prius computer that the Toyota tech did for me today, April 19th, 2007. The printout says "2003 Prius 1NZ-FXE" and I don't know why. Some values were cleared when disconnecting and connecting the 12V battery. The charge indicator on the Energy touch screen shows maybe 1/4 charge. He still says they don't know what drained the hybrid battery. He showed me that it would not go from Ready mode, battery only, to ICE mode. He expects the ICE will start once the hybrid battery is charged. He says he has charged several on other cars. They are expecting to get the charger May 2nd. I guess all I can do is trust them to do what they say they will do, and fix it right, for free.

Battery SOC 0.0 %
WIN -20.0 KW
WOUT 0.0 KW
Delta SOC 20.0 %
IB Main Battery 0.00 A
Battery Blck Min Voltage 8.07 V
Min Battery Block No 8 #
Battery Block Max Voltage 14.06 V
Max Battery Block No 19 #
Battery Temperature 1 68 F
Battery Temperature 2 64.4 F
Battery Temperature 3 66.2 F
Battery Temperature 4 68 F
Battery Inside Air Temp 66.2 F
Normal Status Yes
Pre Onboard Charge No
Onboard Charge Status No
Outer Charge Status No
Cooling Fan Lo OFF
Cooling Fan Mid OFF
Cooling Fan Hi OFF
VMF Fan Voltage 0.000 V
SBL Fan Stop Request OFF
Auxiliary Battery Voltage 10.937 V
EQTR Charge Start Sig OFF
EQCO Front Relay OFF
CCTL ON
Estimat of Ex Charg Hour 0.0 Hr
Battery Blck Voltage 1 13.48 V
Battery Blck Voltage 2 12.11 V
Battery Blck Voltage 3 10.31 V
Battery Blck Voltage 4 9.70 V
Battery Blck Voltage 5 9.21 V
Battery Blck Voltage 6 8.56 V
Battery Blck Voltage 7 8.63 V
Battery Blck Voltage 8 8.09 V
Battery Blck Voltage 9 9.14 V
Battery Blck Voltage 10 8.51 V
Battery Blck Voltage 11 8.73 V
Battery Blck Voltage 12 10.12 V
Battery Blck Voltage 13 10.47 V
Battery Blck Voltage 14 10.80 V
Battery Blck Voltage 15 11.65 V
Battery Blck Voltage 16 12.72 V
Battery Blck Voltage 17 12.76 V
Battery Blck Voltage 18 13.51 V
Battery Blck Voltage 19 14.06 V
Inside Resist 1 0.024 ohm
Inside Resist 2 0.022 ohm
Inside Resist 3 0.022 ohm
Inside Resist 4 0.023 ohm
Inside Resist 5 0.023 ohm
Inside Resist 6 0.022 ohm
Inside Resist 7 0.023 ohm
Inside Resist 8 0.021 ohm
Inside Resist 9 0.022 ohm
Inside Resist 10 0.023 ohm
Inside Resist 11 0.022 ohm
Inside Resist 12 0.024 ohm
Inside Resist 13 0.022 ohm
Inside Resist 14 0.022 ohm
Inside Resist 15 0.022 ohm
Inside Resist 16 0.022 ohm
Inside Resist 17 0.022 ohm
Inside Resist 18 0.021 ohm
Inside Resist 19 0.022 ohm
Onboard Charge Time 0 times
Battery Low Time 0 times
BC Inhibit Time 0 times
Battery HI Time 0 times
IG OFF Hour 0 Hr
IG ON Hour 0.04 Hr
The Stored DTC Num 0
ECU Code 47030A

 

<div align="left">They won't say or don't know if the hybrid battery was drained during the replacement of injectors and computer, or during reading the service codes. </div>

 

Judging from your printout, I have a feeling that they'll be replacing your battery... Those battery block voltages should be much closer to each other..

On my 2001 Classic, I've got a Miniscanner and can read the block voltages as well, and the highest and lowest blocks are within 0.6V of each other... In your battery pack, you've got 10 times that: a 6V differential between highest and lowest.. This really doesn't look like a normal case of a discharged battery as all the blocks are in series and should normally have all discharged at the same rate and all ended up at roughly the same state, not 6V apart.. The only other thing I can figure is perhaps a blown battery ECU giving bogus readings.. In any case, I can guess that you have at least a P3006 code coming up due to this: P3006 is a code that says that the battery's state-of-charge is uneven, which is triggered if the blocks go uneven by more than 1.2V, which yours is obviously way over..

The big NiMH charger they use apparently just clamps on either end of the pack and charges it as a whole, just like the car would do normally, so I don't think it will be able to fix the state of your battery: the high cells will get overcharged, and the low cells will stay undercharged.. About the only way that I could see to "fix" the pack would be to disassemble it and charge the blocks individually until they're all equal, but that's not something that the Toyota techs can do, which is why I suspect they'll end up giving you a new battery..



As well, your 12V aux battery at 10V is basically dead and also needs charging..

 

Caution: a low 12V system could cause the battery ECU to wack out
and maybe not read the HV battery block voltages right. Get that
12V where it should be and then take another pass at the same
readings. The SoC at 0% is mildly suspicious; there should be *some*
state of charge even if it's down in the single digits; either that
or the ECU deliberately reset it to 0 to indicate "we need to do a
total recalibration". Best would be to get in there and measure
the subpack voltages directly, and possibly even try to push a little
charge into the weak ones [if they are] to see if they take it.
This would require an appropriate current-limited power supply and
instrumentation on the bench, but can definitely be done.
.
_H*

 

Thanks, "c4" and "hobbit." I've forwarded your advice to my tech, and I hope he'll see the light.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SomervillePrius @ Jul 26 2006, 02:57 PM) [snapback]292695[/snapback]</div>

Mine was. I posted about it on here extensively. Don't have the link handy.