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Attila Vass's visit w/ the Chief Prius Engineer

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by efusco, Nov 16, 2006.

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  1. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    Attila Vass sent me the following link first..and it's a good place to start...then come back and read the follow up information:

    http://www.vassfamily.net/ToyotaPrius/Toyo...oyotaVisit.html

    F/U e-mail:
    Hi Evan,

    > Wow Attila, what a neat trip. Do you mind if I share that on the forums?

    It was amazing, it's OK to share.
    Some supplement for you ( OK to share )

    The Chief Engineer was also very familiar with the EV modification in the US
    ( it wasn't even me, who brought it up! ) and apologized for not having it
    enabled. He also confirmed, that they were "forced" to leave it out in
    the US, as the catalyzer can get too cold if EV mode is used "incorrectly",
    leading to emission problems.

    I also complained about the "Open Door" indicator ( as in I don't know which
    door is open ), he looked at the other Chief Engineer and they exchanged
    some "look"... It was awesome!

    My third issue was the fuel gauge, when I mentioned the word "bladder" they
    smiled and nodded. I told them that my "measurement system" uses historical
    analysis, so if the sensors are "so-so", the software must be extra "good good"...
    We laughed.

    I also mentioned, that I consider the Prius as a revolutionary project,
    not only because of the technology, but because it's daring effort to move
    the auto industry from the present "ICE only" course. When I compared their
    efforts to Ford's T1, they were very and I mean very glad.

    There was a lot of talk about the 4th generation Prius, mostly incremental
    changes as far as I can tell, needless to say they did not say anything
    specific.

    They seemed to be really, really bright people. It was an amazing
    honour. We can expect more awesome developments from Toyota in the near future
    for sure and they seem to use the Prius' success to fuel more R&D on the
    advanced vehicle topics.

    Cheers,
    Attila

    For those of you not familiar with Attila, he's a guy that doesn't spend a lot of time haunting the forums, but is one of the most innovative and technically savvy Prius people out there. He is the guy who decifered almost all the CAN codes we now use in CAN-View and that have been used by many others. He's on my very short list of people I'd pick for an opportunity like he had and I'm sincerely thrilled that he got to go.
     
    #1 efusco, Nov 16, 2006
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  2. hdrygas

    hdrygas New Member

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    Boggles the mind. Thank you for shairing this with us! It is good to know Toyota is listening to us!
    Henry
     
    #2 hdrygas, Nov 17, 2006
  3. Cheap!

    Cheap! New Member

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    I want to go!

    I want to ask them about what if.

    You know, what it the Prius;

    Used two large motors to push it to 70 mph and the engine would be used to assist at high speed and to keep the unlimited range.

    What if they used the new Altare nano li-ions in a large battery pack for a PEV60? That could charge in six minuets at a recharge station if needed, but still use the engine until those stations could come on line.

    What if you could plug it in?


    What if it came with this on the roof.
    45% Efficient Solar Cells
    That would be 900 watts of panels on the car instead of just 270 watts like Steve Lapp used.

    What if you used a wind generator that would turn in the wind when it is parked all day?

    What if we did all these things?
     
    #3 Cheap!, Nov 17, 2006
  4. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    One thing in particular I want to point out is the REAL and confirmed reason why the EV button was left off of the US Prius....the Cat can get too cold. Never once in the 3 years we've had the 2G Prius in the US has that specific cause been suggested, at least as I can recall.

    Note, also, the Chief Engineer didn't say it was b/c of battery life/warranty issues or anything like that. Simply b/c of the potential for increased emissions if the CAT gets too cold.

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cheap! @ Nov 16 2006, 11:49 PM) [snapback]350707[/snapback]</div>
    You don't need an engineer to answer that. At today's and the foreseable future the "what if" answer is "It would cost too much to be practical". There's a compromise that must be met. Yes, the technology is there to do lots of cool things, but the cost and reliability issues make them completely unrealistic for the market.
     
    #4 efusco, Nov 17, 2006
  5. mwbueno

    mwbueno New Member

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    Thanks for posting this Evan along with the extra info & Humongous KUDOS to Attila!

    You mentioned a short list; I know it is dangerous to start mentioning names because we always leave some off that we wish we hadn't but, I will brave it & post my very short list of Prius Promoters that I feel, along with Attila, deserve such attention from Toyota.

    John1701a
    Graham D
    Michelle V
    Attila V
    Sam W
    Dan K
    ‘Hobbit’
    Evan F
    Norm E

    I hope that Toyota will someday recognize all of these Prius Promoting Pioneers!

    Best Regards,
    Wayne
     
    #5 mwbueno, Nov 17, 2006
  6. FireEngineer

    FireEngineer Active Member

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    Hey Wayne, don't forget to add "mwbueno" to that list.

    Wayne
     
    #6 FireEngineer, Nov 17, 2006
  7. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mwbueno @ Nov 17 2006, 10:15 AM) [snapback]350795[/snapback]</div>
    Hey Wayne,
    You're kind but sadly misguided to include me on that list. And you would be in the top 1 or 2 on my list for certain. And you're right, it's a bit risky to start such a list. My list was going to be techy folks who could really discuss the nuts and bolts (circuits and wires this century?) of Prius. I'd almost rather send John to the marketing department to tell them what vehicles are needed next and how to best market to the the US and produce literature.

    Only one on your list I didn't recognize was Sam W...?


    Let me add on other thing regarding the EV Button exclusion from the US Prius...

    Another F/U e-mail from Attila said that the 'body language' of the engineers he spoke with suggested that the "catalyzer" was not the only reason the button wasn't included. But neither they nor he expounded on that. So there 'may' be battery issues and other issues besides the Cat.
     
    #7 efusco, Nov 17, 2006
  8. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
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    Priceless.

    That's an incredible read. You're right, all Prius owners can relate to it. I remember a couple years ago being on Priuschat and we were literally guessing how things worked and what was actually going on.

    Thanks for sharing.
     
    #8 TonyPSchaefer, Nov 17, 2006
  9. SoopahMan

    SoopahMan Member

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    What if...

    Those solar panels people are putting on the rooves of the Prius were combined with the plug-in mod, so that the panels didn't charge the batteries but rather heated the Catalytic Converter, allowing the car to have longer runs with the ICE off?

    We should accept the solar panel-as-charger method will not be viable as a significant energy source for years, but as a heater, panels have been able to do this for decades. It seems a good pairing.
     
    #9 SoopahMan, Nov 17, 2006
  10. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Nov 16 2006, 08:50 PM) [snapback]350689[/snapback]</div>
    I'm disappointed to hear that the 4th gen is to be "incremental changes only." I know I'm not the only one hoping for PHEV in 2009.
     
    #10 daniel, Nov 19, 2006
  11. MarinJohn

    MarinJohn Senior Member

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    WOW! What a great opportunity Atilla, thanks for sharing, Evan. Very inspirational.
     
    #11 MarinJohn, Nov 20, 2006
  12. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Thanks for sharing Evan! At least we have some leads into the EV and bladder issues. I was hoping they'd push the Prius into the forefront rather than a small upgrade.
     
    #12 Tideland Prius, Nov 20, 2006
  13. DanMan32

    DanMan32 Senior Member

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    Really cool! A bit disappointed I didn't make the list, but then I haven't been on PriusChat much anymore. It just got too busy for me to keep up.
    I was going to say we should put Hobbit and Attila in a room with the Prius and see what the two can come up with together.
    I might also add Coastal Dave for his developments of AV stuff.
     
    #13 DanMan32, Nov 21, 2006
  14. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DanMan32 @ Nov 21 2006, 01:54 PM) [snapback]352672[/snapback]</div>
    Dan, I agree, bad oversight to leave you off...as you frequent the 'other' forum I think you just slipped Wayne's mind as he comes here (rarely) and a few of the yahoo! sites and probably doesn't know you well.
     
    #14 efusco, Nov 21, 2006
  15. galaxee

    galaxee mostly benevolent

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    how about DH? he's torn a prius apart down the the frame too. or do toyota people not count? :p
     
    #15 galaxee, Nov 21, 2006
  16. hyo silver

    hyo silver Awaaaaay

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    Fine. Leave me off the list. No convertibles for you. :(

    :D
     
    #16 hyo silver, Nov 21, 2006
  17. DanMan32

    DanMan32 Senior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Nov 21 2006, 02:57 PM) [snapback]352675[/snapback]</div>
    Well, I guess I'll be here more often, since the 'other' site is down for the count. Things are slow at work this week.
     
    #17 DanMan32, Nov 22, 2006
  18. king_of_the_huns

    king_of_the_huns New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DanMan32 @ Nov 22 2006, 06:52 AM) [snapback]352977[/snapback]</div>
    It's good to have you "back" DanMan!

    Just 2 comments if I may :

    ...as Evan pointed it out, not including the EV button in the US version is not necessarily due to the catalyzer problem only!

    ...daniel, please read for the 4th gen it's "mostly incremental changes as far as we were allowed to talk about". As you can imagine, they were not able to share ANY specific information on the next gen, but looking at their alternative vehicle roadmap, it's very impressive!

    Also, please note, that we were mostly discussing why I/we made these modifications which is a great way of telling them which part "could be improved"... I was just blown away, how open and well informed they were on our topics. This is what I wish to see from other "consumer product" manifacturing companies as well!

    I am looking forward to see the nextgen Prius and Hybrid Minivans...

    Regards,
    Attila
     
    #18 king_of_the_huns, Nov 22, 2006
  19. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(king_of_the_huns @ Nov 22 2006, 03:19 PM) [snapback]353264[/snapback]</div>
    So you're saying it was deliberate understatement? That would be nice. Still, if they only go with the rumored 9-mile plug-in range, or do not have plug-in at all, it will be a great disappointment for me.

    There's another thread somewhere talking about a slew of EVs on the horizon from other car companies (foreign and start-up companies). At this point I'd buy an EV if I could, and keep the Prius for road trips.

    If the next Prius was a full PHEV, say 30-mile range and no need for the engine below 50 mph, I'll be first on the waiting list. Unless, of course, a really good EV is available. I'd buy a Tesla today if I could have it in the spring.
     
    #19 daniel, Nov 23, 2006
  20. DaveinOlyWA

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

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    for trade secret reasons, i am amazed that they let an "outsider" in to even discuss why things like the EV was omitted. this kind of openness is totally unheard of around here.

    so to elaborate on future developments in any way at all is completely unbelievable. i bet the engineers were just dying to tell you more but under strict orders not to.

    thanks for sharing Attila
     
    #20 DaveinOlyWA, Nov 23, 2006
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