Your quiet hybrid car may be a thing of the past if legislation now in Congress passes. The National Highway Transportation Safety Administration is holding hearings this month to review the dangers quiet cars pose to blind pedestrians. You can download the hearing notice and comment to NHTSA directly. And you can ask Bob Wilson (bwilson4web) to represent you when he presents his testimony. Bob is going to Washington and I have asked him to represent me to NHTSA since I can't go, being in Oregon. There are almost 4,500 active PriusChat members. The more of us that Bob represents, the stronger our voice will be heard. Ask Bob to represent you and oppose needless legislation to make your car noisier!
Thanks Bill for the vote of confidence but for the up coming hearings, I'll be going as CEO of my home company, 625k Inc. Also, it makes sense to wait until I share my charts with the group before voting. The outline will be: Risk to my business plan to keep hybrids running to 625,000 miles, 30-40 years Weakness of proposed, audio only rule Proposal for starting "smart highway" with hybrids Rewriting the bill to 'turn on' hybrid owners and technologists to lead the way (aka., solving the chicken and egg problem) You' all really need to see my charts before voting. But I do think we need to organize an effective hybrid owners group and I don't mean the faux 'self proclaimed' Prius and Hybrid groups. I do not doubt their sincere belief in what they think they are doing but a web site does not a group make. Let me suggest we do a little research before any Congressional hearings and see if there is some existing, user group that we might form a hybrid interest group under: AAA or other auto club para-professional organizations It needs to be a serious organization with (ugh!) dues and services to the members. Most of all, it needs officers who are elected and responsible to the membership. Something along the lines of CAUCE, SANS, AARP or other advocacy groups makes sense. But it can't be a Potemkin or 'one trick' pony. In a perfect world, it would incorporate the leadership of Hybridfest and other green car rallies as well as support of independent hybrid service companies. But most of all, it can not be centered around just one or two "heros" who are expected to shoulder the work. Finally, it has to be incorporated, a budget and commitment to the mission. No one person can or should be expected to do everything. My short list includes: Eric Powers - Mr. Hybridfest Wayne Brown - Johnny "heater block" Hobbit - independent shop ambassador John1701a - knows everyone who has ever done anything Patrick Wong - west coast, do-it-yourself advocate Jason - creator of GreenHybrid Evans - safety and PriusChat creator Michelle - Yahoogroup moderator for Prius forums others too numerous to mention In the past, we've had to deal with silly hybrid skeptics who like Don Quixote tried to stand in the way of progress. Time and events have driven them to blessed silence. But now we are faced with integrating the new technology we have embraced into society. This means we need to either reach for the reins of leadership of existing organizations or (God forbid) form our own. Bob Wilson
Where is the "I'm not a US citizen so I have no say in this even though stupid laws from the USA have a habit of migrating" option?
Happily not cursed with these dang bladder fuel tanks or having to 'roll your own' EV buttons!!! Best of all, you don't have to put up with strange temperature and measurement gauges that have water freezing at 32; boiling at 212; measurements in 12 inches per foot; 3 feet per yard; 1760 yards per mile; and bolts down to 1/64ths of an inch. At least we both have eight fingers! Bob Wilson ps. It could be worse ... n'est pas?
man... if we weren't already beyond swamped, we'd be happy to help. i know you're also busy, bob, and we really appreciate you taking the time to organize and present at the hearings.
Bob, i applaud your efforts... since i drive a full battery EV, which is quieter than a Pri... (never have engine startup, even in winter time!!) i do not want to compromise my range by having to feed watts into some sort of audio device to imitate engine noise... i think we should all back Bob, AND write in...that just reinforces his position. its just a letter... i'm sure we could get a form letter here, cut and paste...etc... email is free. most everyone accepts that.
Bob, I applaud your efforts also, but I'll limit my letter writing to my Canadian representatives when this issue arises here. Please consider framing this issues as: (1) Noise pollution control. IMO it's trucks and loud gas engines (particularly on sports cars and cars with bad mufflers) that have the problem. Not EVs and Hybrids. (2) A pedestrian awareness and safety issue. It is NOT pedestrians being run down by quiet vehicles, it's pedestrian carelessness that is the root of the problem. Finally, if such legislation were to pass, it MUST NOT, IMO, discriminate against EVs and Hybrids specifically, it MUST involve sound meter testing by the manufacturers. If EVs and Hybrids must be belled, let the super quiet ICE vehicles be belled too. This is a hypothetical; I don't want ANY vehicles belled.
Hi All, I reread one of my old posts on this subject. I think the Prius is already noisey enough, but at supersonic frequencies. The blind just need a super-sonic downcoverter . I know dog's hear the Prius inverter. I see em turn and look. I know the RX400h is very noisey in the high sonic range when in electric mode.
You look at the rationale of something like this, and it's easier to see why so little gets done in Washington. They ought to be taking the cell phones of drivers out of their ears--if they are concerned about safety.
Bob, I know Linda W, one of the partners of Hybridfest has decibel data regarding road noise and hybrids. I'll have to make sure to get you that info.
Any thoughts about having a table at Hybridfest for signatures of people opposed to the hybrid noise bill Eric??
What I really need is a reading of the inverter coolant pump at any given distance. The reason is this would be the cheapest solution to a noise maker IF we are forced to make our Prius 'noisy.' The simple solution is to mount the inverter pump on rubber mounts on the front of the frame that holds the radiator. A pair of plates are mounted so the one closest to the vehicle frame serves to block and echo out the pump noise -- a hemisphere or parabolic shape would be perfect. The other is an open-air diaphragm to the front via the radiator air inlet grill to help couple pump noise to the air. The advantages: no extra cr*p on the car - we are relocating a part that already makes noise when the car is running minimal cost - electrical and two tubing extensions along with mounting hardware and optional sound plates and reflector easy owner access - when the pump fails, the Prius soon suffers heating problems and the new location can be a lot easier to reach. improved coolant bleeding - current coolant change is a SOB due to the lame 'bleeding' process. Having the pump as "our friend" makes this bi- or tri-annual maintenance much easier The disadvantage: labor and parts to relocate - it is currently in an SOB location to extract, run the tubing and wire extension. I doubt it can be done in less than 4 hours and typical shop rates means at least $200 not counting the inverter coolant replacement. possible 5 mph hazard - a 5 mph impact _MIGHT_ leave pump damaged, inverter coolant gone and car unable to drive away. the last thing the pedestrian heard was the inverter pump ... because it is such a lame solution NOTE: I will try to buy (unless someone has one to donate) an invert coolant pump and bring it to the hearings along with batteries to run it. I can cobble up a demo unit and have a little fun with 'em. Bob Wilson
The thing I don't like about it, Bob, is that once installed it would seem very difficult for 'bad boys' to disable. The Prius would be somewhat less fun if I could not creep around quietly for bird watching, sneaking up on rabbits, etc. I know we are not supposed to be thinking about ever shutting off the noisemaker, but...
I have always hated the inverter pump noise. Relocation to the front frame on rubber mounts and directing the noise away from the car doesn't bother me one bit. If we can also come up with a way to improve inverter coolant change, there would be some slight benefit to the owner. But there is a more fundamental problem: The eulogy for the first person killed by a faux noise maker hybrid. For that is exactly what will happen. These noise makers only make our hybrids as deadly as the existing cars. Now if you really want to sneak up on the fauna, install a rear camera and drive backwards. <grins> Bob Wilson
If you want to help me get in the NHTSA hearing as a presenter or speaker, you need to call or notify: Debbie Ascone Office of the Senior Associate Administrator for Vehicle Safety 202-366-4383 [email protected] 1200 New Jersey Ave. SE Washington, DC 20590 Let her know that you would like Bob Wilson of 625k Inc. from Huntsville AL to present his corporate and solutions ideas at the hearing. Feel free to borrow any of the ideas in the letter I am sending or cite any of my earlier postings (there should be about 2.5 years available) via e-mail with follow-up paper copy. Thanks, Bob Wilson
Bob and I talked. I like the idea, but we need to figure out a way that's effective, but not too intrusive. If you have ideas, let me know.
