Aqua Japanese website, videos, pictures and more....

I'm more exited about something like a Yaris hybrid. Based on recent guesses in terms of price and mpg it looks like the Aqua wouldn't be significantly cheaper or more efficient than the Prius II. How about something closer to the old Geo Prism or even Metro in size for urban/suburban singles who don't care if they have to rent a larger vehicle once or twice a year for that special task?

 

Because of safety and emissions requirements no one can build a car as cheaply as a metro. In europe they can do things more cheaply, but I am not convinced they would sell well in America. A versa is about the cheapest car you can buy, and the yaris is not much more. AFAIK the aqua is smaller than the old prism/corola. They could make the aqua less expensive by using cheaper materials, but the hsd is going to make it more expensive than these cars no matter what. Dropping a honda style hybrid drive with a 3 cylinder engine in a 4 door versa is about as cheap as you can get as a hybrid. I'm not sure that cost savings would get you to buy it over a versa, or an aqua.

As to mpg, a smaller car will not likely get better mileage than a aqua. You can get a little cheaper and perhaps more efficient with a 3-cylinder engine. You can make the frontal area smaller. These two changes make it more like the insight. The other things that make it more efficient would cost money. Easiest would be DI engine with longer strokes, as toyota has talked about getting 42% efficiency versus 38% in the gen III prius. Then its about using more lighter material like carbon fiber and aluminum which costs money.

 

A neighbor still has a Gen I Insight and claims it gets an honest 60 mpg - and that's in hilly country where I live - and he's no hypermiler; he flogs the poor little thing! I'd be interested in an option like that. I guess there aren't enough of us to make a market.

 

I want one, O its going to be a long wait

 

VW thinks there are enough of you. They say they will build the xl1 in 2013
Volkswagen XL1 Concept First Look - Motor Trend

it will be expensive though, and may only be available in europe. 2 cylinder 47 hp diesel with a 27hp electric motor in a phev configuration.

 

Interesting but from a strictly utilitarian standpoint it needn't be a plug-in. Adds cost and depending upon how your local electricity is generated it may or may not be much "greener."

 

The thing that will make the xl1expensive is that low volume carbon fiber body. vw can make it out of aluminum instead like Honda did with the original insight. The xl1 has much lower drag than the insight, a more efficient engine, a better hybrid system, and weighs less.

With the low power 0.8l engine you need a fairly large battery. Its not much more to make it a phev, and this removes the need to recharge all of battery from the engine. After government incentives it is likely the phev portion would actually lower the after tax price to the customer. That small engine though efficient will be expensive and underpowered. Something like the ecoboost 1.0L 3 cylinder would be cheaper and provide much more power. With an engine like that a 1kwh battery would be big enough, but it still would make sense to be a phev. I'm sure that the people buying this car either will be doing to reduce oil consumption, or if its to be environmental will already be buying fairly green electricity.

Given that it is a small 2 seater and would cost more than an aqua, I would expect the more conventional aqua hybrid to vastly outsell it. It seems like a good compromise of efficiency, size, and price. I'm glad vw is working on an efficiency technology show case. I think the only company that can make something like the xl1 with a low cost is hyundai. To make it less expensive they would use steel/aluminum and a gasoline di 3cyl. It would not weigh significantly less than the prius c, but the lower drag coefficient and more efficient engine could give it a large boost in highway driving efficiency. The aqua makes it hard to make money on such a car though.

 

It's just depressing that the compromises we've made re: safety versus economy have made a high mileage car out of reach for the masses. All through Asia the 125 cc motorcycle is the most commonly utilized mode of transportation. They're getting richer, which is nice because now Honda has made a fuel injected water cooled single cylinder 250 that costs a little more but has enough oomph for the freeway, gets 75 mpg (90 if you ride conservatively) and they've brought it to the US and Europe. I'll have to content myself with that and my Prius until there's a four wheel option within reason.

 

Wonder if we will be able to chose from all the goodies shown in the Japanese Toyota Prius c site. That kind of equipment choice could make the Prius c quite popular here. Even the choice of alloys is pretty nice. Sure hope so.

 

If Toyota would take note of what can happen to a popular small car here in the U.S, they might be smart to allow their own OEM goodies to be offered for sale. If not, it will be the aftermarket sector that will clean up $$, especially with younger buyers.

Sometimes, it appears that Toyota is just so Vanilla stodgy when it comes to their marketing here in the states. Using the Japanese Toyota site, I configured a couple of really nice looking c (cs, c's?) Their OEM offerings are quite nicely done and actually make this hybrid hatch something that could be in demand, not just for the MPGs but also for the way it looks!

 

Portuguese Toyota models have some restrictions...

For instance Avensis petrol can't acess to higher levels of equipment/luxury/premium.
Valvematic have higher base price in Verso.
Also the stupid 17inch wheels that come with Prius (except base or solar), but that's all around Europe...

Personally, I think Europe is levelled, I don't see much difference in "peeping" toyota.de or toyota.pt when comes to see model lists or availability. Prices are way different, we'll live with that.

Edit: last month I read something about planning UrbanCruiser (there is a Scion like that) and Corolla sales stop in Spain. Don't know if it's true.
Daihatsu will leave Europe in late 2012, also.

 

When the first Yaris came out, I think I saw where Europe could get a leather interior, auto a/c... and several other features that were not offered on our bare bones Yaris models here. Europe could even order a Yaris with a turbodiesel. Only using the Yaris as an example. VW offers options on their cars in Europe (Germany at least) that we can't order on the cars they offer here. Everyone does this to us! And historically, even our own manufacturers.

In the U.S., a small car is still generally offered as entry level, loss leader fare for those who are perceived not to be able to afford a luxury land yacht. That is starting to change, but at a snails pace. The Ford Fiesta is available with a fairly nice equipment list. I hope it's the start of a trend.

Mini showed the way a small car could be finely engineered and equipped. Unfortunately, they are a little "BMW" expensive. Only when you drive one, do you see why they might be a little spendy, and worth it, too!

We'll just have to wait and see how Toyota packages and ships this c to us. Maybe Toyota reads this forum. It would really be good for them if they did. They should be plugged right in to it. Uff, that's nearly a hybrid pun. :shocked:

 

Why not allow someone the option to put the 17" wheel on whichever Prius they want to purchase? Why not allow a choice so basic to the Prius buyer? What does Toyota gain by limiting these choices?

The only other wheel available is not a great looker and I'm a bit amazed someone would prefer that thing to the 17 inch alloy.