Another Canadian Source for PP 12V Batteries ....... Maybe

When you search at CanadianTire.ca or PartSource.ca (which is owned by Canadian Tire), they both say they don't have a 12V battery for a PP. When you search for a Group 140R battery they both have the same battery that's listed as 140R-H4-L1. The size is a perfect match. Both say that the polarity is "left hand positive" but that would mean that it's a Group 140 battery, not Group 140R. However, the Part Source page includes a table that states that it fits the PP. The price for both is the same at C$181.99 (~US$143).

General PDP Template | Canadian Tire
https://www.partsource.ca/products/5140rmf-magnapower-group-size-140r-h4-l1-battery-445-cca

PriusChat is being weird with the CanadianTire link. I don't know why it's showing up like it is, but clicking on the link works fine.

So there's lots of confusion here. The "left hand positive" comment could be a sloppy cut-and-paste job or it could be a bad Group designation. But, if you're in Canada and looking for a new battery, you might want to check out this source.

Ed

 

Nope. I live in Saskatchewan and I was at their store less than a week ago for some UPS batteries. They don't have any 140R batteries and suggested a Group 26R. A quick check showed sizes that vary from 208 x 173 x 197 mm to 222 x 171 x 203 mm as compared to the Group 140R at 210 x 175 x 190mm (L x W x H). So that would have to be approached very carefully.

I'm not actively searching for a new battery. I thought mine was getting weak (~ 2 years old), but a recent experiment in slightly overcharging at 15.0V and warmer temperatures that allowed the battery to accept the charge yielded an increase in resting voltage from about 12.1V to 12.6V a few days after the charge so it looks like I'm good. Testing with an old 50A load tester and a current Konnwei KW208 tester confirmed a 340A CCA rating. The KW208 also stated that the battery resistance was 8.78 milliohms.

 

I understand this stuff and sometimes I still feel like I'm speaking in tongues.

If you look at the sticky thread "12V Battery is Discharging, Re-Charge Now!" in this section, in the first message, Rob43 posts a chart of resting voltage vs. State of Charge. I don't think that chart is considered to be standard across the industry, but whatever. In that chart, my old resting voltage of 12.1V indicates a State of Charge between 50 - 60%. Not impressive for a supposedly fully charged battery. But my new resting voltage of 12.6V translates to over 90%. Very nice!

Later in the thread Salamander_King posted a photo of testing his then new PP battery with an Ancel BA101 tester which appears similar to my Konnwei KW208 tester. In the photo, his new battery showed an internal resistance of 8.94 milliohms as compared to my two year old battery reading of 8.78 milliohms. There's no way to know how comparable the readings actually are or how accurate they are, but on strictly qualitative terms, I like it! The lower the battery's internal resistance is, the better it can provide heavy current without dropping the voltage too much. This isn't too important for us since the PP doesn't have a conventional starter motor, but a low internal resistance also suggests an overall healthy battery.

 

There's some mathemagic and hand-waving going on with these devices so you have to take everything with a bucketful of salt.

12.9 V is easy to measure accurately and is a believable number. If you input the correct rating for the battery, they made a measurement of the internal resistance and then scaled that to estimate the CCA value. No idea how they came up with that estimate or whether any battery experts would agree with their estimate.

What does their SOH reading of 36% mean? Nothing! It isn't just their CCA number divided by the rating. Are they trying to compensate for the temperature difference between CCA (0F, -18C) and the actual temperature? Can the unit measure temperature at all? Who knows?

The clamps are more sophisticated than they appear. It is possible that they are making a credible measurement of the battery's internal resistance. Someone would have to reverse-engineer the unit to determine whether the measurement was believable. But there is no definitive number that I know of for good vs. bad resistance. It would definitely depend on the size of the battery.

So with all these negative points, why would anyone want to use this piece of junk?

The value comes from measuring changes over time. If "Measurement A" is 275 and is slowly dropping over time, that shows the battery is aging. The same if "Measurement B" is 10.90 and is slowly increasing over time. My comparison above of your then new PP battery to my battery suggests minimal degradation of my battery over its 2 year life.

What are you trying to start with this battery? An econo-box with a lawn mower engine or a 6 liter diesel? The econo-box will be fine. The diesel, not so much.

If I were you, those caps look like they might be removable. If so, check the water level and add as necessary. Break out your Vectron charger and put the battery through a rejuvenate cycle. Vectron says you have to disconnect the battery from the car because the rejuvenate cycle is at 16V. I defined a custom charge profile at 15V and did an in-car rejuvenate. After the cycle, or two or three, see if "Measurement A" and/or "Measurement B" have improved. Recheck the water level after each cycle. I wouldn't be surprised to see the level drop. Note that you SHOULD NOT do this with an AGM battery or a totally sealed flooded battery because you can't replace any water lost during the rejuvenate cycle.

Ed

 

Well, we're kinda trying to read tea leaves here, but I suspect that the 60% SOC would have more of an effect on the resistance than the battery rating would, but 8.94 to 9.47 is only about a 5% difference. That's not really significant for a mushy measurement like this.

And even though they claimed a CCA value that's higher than the rating, they still only give it a 93% SOH. Yeah, mathemagic! For what it's worth (nothing!) my battery 'measured' as 342 CCA and they gave that a 100% rating. That was just after the rejuvenation Now, 4 days later, the CCA value has RISEN to 355A, SOH is still 100%, and resistance has dropped to 8.45 from 8.78 even though the SOC has dropped to 81%. Yeah, tea leaves, definitely.

Regarding your other battery, at some point you just have to let go and stop flogging that poor horse.

Ed

 

Looks like anything greater than about 12.7V is considered to be 100% Sounds reasonable. Overall, I'd say that consistency is good. SOC definitely affects SOH and CCA. Good to know. That tells me that to get the best use out of this gizmo, you have to run the battery through a charge cycle every time you want to use it.