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Animated Interactive demo of PSD

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Technical Discussion' started by Ichabod, Aug 29, 2006.

  1. Ichabod

    Ichabod Artist In Residence

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    I ran across this page yesterday and was fascinated by the inner workings of the Power Split Device (PSD).

    I also noticed that there was enough information there for me to put together an animation and working interactive demo of the PSD with controls for input from ICE and MG2, so I spent a couple hours putting it together in Maya and Flash. Here's the result (it's a flash 8 swf, so I can't show directly in the post :( ):

    Power Split Device demo [edit: broken link removed]

    If anyone has suggestions or technical corrections I'd happily entertain them, and I'd also be glad to hand it off for use on technical info pages like the one linked above. I've just been getting a kick out of playing with the sliders... trying to find pulse, glide, and dead-band settings with the sliders and seeing just when MG1 will change direcitons (as in hard acceleration from a stop or very slow roll).

    [edit]
    I've created a new version based on input from this thread, and I'm posting the new link here so you don't have to hunt for it ;) I'll leave the old one up for a short while for comparison, but meanwhile, the new link is:

    Toyota Prius - Power Split Device
     
    #1 Ichabod, Aug 29, 2006
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2015
  2. eagle33199

    eagle33199 Platinum Member

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    I like it!

    One thing i would add, though, is a slider for MG1 (i mean, why not?). Also, it would be kinda cool to have buttons you could select that would put the car into different phases (EV mode, regen braking, etc).

    Oh, and add a simulated (estimated) MPG bar on the side... so that someone looking at it sees the effet of using the gas engine. this may require you to have some place where they can input the speed they're going, or something to that nature.
     
  3. Ichabod

    Ichabod Artist In Residence

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    Good suggestions.

    I started with a slider for MG1, but realized that because it starts the ice and is used for regen it would be redundant with the ICE slider... seems like it would only add or subtract from the ICE speed, and the resulting animation would be the same as just increasing or decreasing ICE RPMs.

    As for modes (EV, regen) and fuel economy, and speed feedback, there's a lot more that goes into making the HSD work than just this part, and I honestly don't know enough about it to realistically represent those things :D

    But I might just add a "fuel consumption" bar that shows when more or less fuel is being used... which would just be the ICE slider position modified by the MG2 slider ;)
     
  4. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    The speeds of MG1, MG2 and the ICE are not 100% independent of one another. If you take a look at Wayne Brown's simulator he's tied them together in a realistic way. Adding that portion of his simulator to your animation would be something really nice. Add to that a mock-up of the Energy display so folks could see what's happening in a arrows-to-battery-only state vs Arrows from battery and ICE to wheels state, etc. that could become a very powerful educational tool.

    But I have to say...DANG that's a nice diagram...
     
  5. Ichabod

    Ichabod Artist In Residence

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    I was just thinking about that Evan. I do like the idea of putting in a realistic representation of the relationship between those pieces, not just completely independent sliders...

    I also considered adding a HSD-like display with arrows, but initially rejected that because of [a] lack of technical understanding and I thought it might be nice to keep this very abstract just to show how this one part works.

    Now you're all gonna challenge me to make this VERY realistic, but that's what I get for posting here :D I'll do my homework and see if I can figure out how to make it work, but if you have links that might help, please post them.

    If I listen to you guys I'll probably end up reverse-engineering the entire HSD. Just wait for the version with only a gas and brake pedal instead of sliders!
     
  6. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    Here's the diagram of the simulators Nomogram:
    http://privatenrg.com/#Nomograph

    There may still be a version of the simulator available out there as freeware or you can e-mail Wayne directly to see if he'll allow you to use a copy or even give you the info on how it works.
     
  7. eagle33199

    eagle33199 Platinum Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ichabod @ Aug 29 2006, 11:09 AM) [snapback]311152[/snapback]</div>
    Well, since you asked for it...

    Id would be sweet to track everything, including speed, acceleration, and battery SOC levels... give it a real lifelike feel.

    LOL

    The problem with just gas and brake pedals is that you can't do different amounts of pressure... instead, turn them into sliders!
     
  8. jbarnhart

    jbarnhart New Member

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    I guess it relies on a version of Flash that I do not have. All I see are the planet gears and backgrounds for two sliders. I do not like having flash on my systems because of all the flashing animated advertisements I get when I have it. It really has become more of a hindrance than a help.
     
  9. Ichabod

    Ichabod Artist In Residence

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    I guess that means you're SOL, because it is, as we say in Boston, WICKED AESOME!!! ;) Seriously though, if you have any version of flash, you might as well get the latest version. And I think you can get extensions for Firefox that will selectively block things like SWF files, but allow you to see them when you choose to.

    I read up a little on the nomograph, and I'm putting in some of those features now. I'll probably post a new version tomorrow. I'd love for this to be a useful tool for explaining the PSD. Wayne's site is a little too in-depth for the kind of help I want to provide to the average mechanidiot, and the only other demo like this that I've seen was very confusing and under-explained.
     
  10. eagle33199

    eagle33199 Platinum Member

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    give http://www.admuncher.com/ a try... it gives you a trial (30 days, i think), and is really a great program... it prevents 90% of popups and banner adds, replacing those with something like "[Ad Muched]". In fact, it prevents those graphics from ever being downloaded by the browser, saving you bandwidth for what you actually want on the site (in the past 18 months since i installed it, it's saved me over 20 gigs of bandwidth) Then you can install flash and all taht without having to worry about silly ads.
     
  11. NuShrike

    NuShrike Active Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jbarnhart @ Aug 29 2006, 12:38 PM) [snapback]311246[/snapback]</div>
    Firefox and Adblock/Flashblock extension, but you're probably not reading this anyways.

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ichabod @ Aug 29 2006, 08:06 AM) [snapback]311106[/snapback]</div>
    Have you seen this original Java-based simulator for the 'Classic'?
     
  12. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ichabod @ Aug 29 2006, 02:58 PM) [snapback]311255[/snapback]</div>
    Then hopefully this document along with these animations will be just right.

    The goal from them was to associate each specific driving mode to a set of component movements within the PSD; otherwise, people have no idea what the heck they are looking at. Though your animation is pretty sweet. Being able to witness the transission (via manual intervention) is something I have never had been able to offer. You've obviously nailed that aspect of it. Cool!
     
  13. Ichabod

    Ichabod Artist In Residence

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    Thanks John, I've seen those pages before, and even that seemed overly complex when I thought a nice interactive piece might help people understand it faster.

    From that page, and eagle's suggestion earlier I think I'm also going to add some buttons that will demo some specific modes of operation by setting the sliders automatically into a configuration, but still allow you to manually move the sliders around.
     
  14. galaxee

    galaxee mostly benevolent

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(NuShrike @ Aug 29 2006, 05:12 PM) [snapback]311286[/snapback]</div>
    i think you mean flashblock, it's one of my favorite extensions :D
     
  15. deh2k

    deh2k New Member

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    That's a very nice animation. Have you seen this one?

    Prius Planetary Gear System

    It's not as attractive, but it has some nice features.
     
  16. hdrygas

    hdrygas New Member

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    I admire what you have done, mainly because I have no idea how to do it for myself. Hats off to you. So now how can you pump it up? MG1 ?
     
  17. NuShrike

    NuShrike Active Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ Aug 29 2006, 04:29 PM) [snapback]311350[/snapback]</div>
    You're right! Mental fart.. Corrected now.
     
  18. Ichabod

    Ichabod Artist In Residence

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    I have seen that demo, deh2k.

    That was one of the ones that I thought was both too simplistic to be useful to technically-minded people, but too complex and ill-explained to be useful to simple-minded folk like us.

    I've created v1.5 of my demo with some of the suggestions from this thread incorporated. I have yet to put in the Energy Monitor screen, but I think that will be fun and make this much more useful to the average Prius driver. Here's the new link:

    Prius PSD demo v1.5

    Take a look and let me know what you think!
     
  19. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    Very very nice!! Well done, the Nomogram numbers seem to jive with Wayne's simulator numbers as well (though I thought the MG1 limit was 10,000rpm...could be wrong on that.
     
  20. eagle33199

    eagle33199 Platinum Member

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    Correct me if i'm wrong, but when you increase your speed (ie the RPM's from MG2) with the ICE at 0, shouldn't MG1 increase RPM's (not go negative)? it's probably a question of semantics, ie what's considered positive "output" from MG1 and whats considered negative "input" to MG1...

    Seems to me that negative values should be used when recharging the batteries, since it's not generating any RPM's, instead it's consuming them. the positive values should then be used for when it's generating RPM's (by consuming the batteries).