A note about retiring a Prius

Jeff DelPapa OKed sharing an e-mail exchange about his retirement of a 2001 Prius. My 03 Prius is working just fine but eventually, everything reaches the end of life. Jeff's e-mail makes a lot of sense:

Jeff DelPapa <>
5:50 PM (15 hours ago)

to me

We tried both leaf and the E golf, and just liked the golf more. If the golf doesn't happen for some reason, we will be buying a Leaf. Sue only buys new, and hangs on until they let her down. (cars are usually around 15 years old when we get rid of them). In the case of the Prius, it was looking like 2K in repairs (center exhaust pipe and O2 sensor, evap issues) to get past next months annual inspection, and the paint had started to fail (the front edge of the hood has growing bald spots).

The big thing that meant we would search "now" was it had two "required external assistance" events in a row. (different reasons), and almost 30 years together has shown me that if a car lets her down, its days are numbered. The only reason the Tercel got to hang on for 3 months after it stalled out in heavy rain (needed new wires and a distributor cap, and it was fine) was that the Prius took that long to arrive. I grew up with crufty cars, its part of why I am a fair diagnostic mechanic, and an even better "by the side of the road with a rock and some fence wire" bodger. She grew up with a father that bought new, and didn't do his own repairs. To her they are a utility, and better deliver.

The golf didn't have the "high beltline disease" that modern japan has latched onto, and the steering just felt a bit crisper. The leaf was a bit cheaper, and fast chargers for it are more available (god damn connector conspiracies), the golf is just a newer design, and you can feel it.I was hoping the prius would have hung on long enough for the Tesla 3 to show up. Here is part of a message I sent hobbit.

We tried a bunch of things this round, and didn't bother with some others.

The first day was US and Europe. Looked at the plug-in C-max, but didn't get try it as a plug in, just in its hybrid mode. (the ford dealer didn't bother to do the HV charge beyond what the engine would do, so EV wasn't available) Rated it a meh, particularly annoying was the amount of space the battery intruded into the cargo space behind the seat. Didn't get to see how the hybrid only did for cargo space, the 12 volt battery was dead in that one, so we couldn't open the rear hatch. They didn't have the electric Focus, and while ford lists one in "extended inventory, call your dealer to arrange a test", the dealer said they had no way to find out where it was.

We tried the E-golf next, and finished the drive with big smiles on our faces. We didn't try the Jetta hybrid as its only a mild hybrid (like the civic), and the double clutch transmission doesn't have the best reputation, especially as Susan would be using it in its pretend to be automatic mode. The turbo'd engine wanting a diet of premium meant we didn't bother.

Finished the day trying the B class. Interesting, but by the time we got the gadgets we wanted on it, it was at least 10k more than the golf. It also lacked the responsive feel of the golf, despite the tesla designed drivetrain. (and no fast charge port of any standard)

My brother bought a Volt recently. (the hood on his Corrado sheared its forward restraints (but not the hinges) at 70mph on the pike. It made an impression on the roof) Sue hated the heavy regen (which you could turn off at least), but the killer was the wimpy heat. Even with the heat cranked to range robbing levels, it was still pretty chilly inside, so she didn't even want to give it a try.

We drove by the BMW dealer, but the I3 looked like it had be hit hard by the ugly stick (It wouldn't be so bad if it was a single color, but they did two tones plus an accent). Add the yuppie pricing, and a reputation for heavy (and non selectable) regen, and we didn't even bother to pull in.

Didn't try the E smart, two seats and minimal storage, combined with a battery rental scheme, that wouldn't be worth it at our low annual mileages, and only 3kw charge speeds..... The I-Mev has been described as a "golf cart with pretensions", and has the same slow 3kw charge speed, so another one for the don't bother. The E-Fiat besides being a Fiat, is CA/OR only.

Next day, we went to see the products of Japan.

Wasn't going to try the Civic hybrid (again mild hybrid), and we couldn't find an accord plug-in closer than Troy NY. (and it was too big). The E-Fit would have been nice, but its a CA only, and apparently discontinued.Looked at the CT 200H. Most of it looked fine, but we wonder what they were smoking when they did the spindle grill. It was even more cramped feeling than the Prius, and was priced like the plug-in, for the ordinary. Didn't bother driving it.

Next came the Leaf. It wasn't bad, but the Golf was a nudge above it. There were even some incentives from Nissan that would have chopped the price some, and put it after the tax stuff about what they wanted for the high trim Prius C. I liked their "around view" parking aid, and cargo space was good (better than the prius, and the fords, equal with the VW).

Finally the toyota dealer. You saw the gist of things in the earlier message.

We debated a bit, spent some time with the Plugshare maps, and I sent the VW dealer a "Get us one with a black interior, and we will take it" email...




On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 9:07 AM, <> [Prius_Technical_Stuff] <[email protected]> wrote:


Living in North Alabama, we're not at risk of freezing the battery. But I am curious:

E-golf vs. Leaf (?) - I'm leaning towards a used Leaf when our 03 finally gives up the ghost. With used Leaf's coming off lease, Ebay is showing some within one-charge hop range of Huntsville, less than 160 miles for ~$15,000. For $5,000, I can replace a weak battery.

The elephant in the room, the second generation Volt, will be announced next week with hopefully credible metrics. My understanding from a Detroit News interview is GM aggressively used their 'On-Star' system to study early adopter driving habits and metrics. So the Volt 2.0 should be an impressive vehicle well optimized (even GM would have to work hard to screw it up.) It also means used Volts should become affordable when the new model hits the show rooms.

A year ago last September, I was looking at a Lincoln MKZ hybrid. Not the fuel sipper like our Prius, still I remember testing a Ford Escape hybrid and the 'American boat' ride. My impression is the second tier hybrids are still clustered around the low 40s MPG with nicer creature comforts.

Regardless, I look forward to reading your selection and criteria.

BTW, what was or is the 'end of life' criteria for your 01 and mileage?

Bob Wilson

---In [email protected], <rjnerd@...> wrote :

One thing that owners of the plug in Prius, and any future ones with a Li-ion battery pack, will need to know. The batteries freeze at -25C (-13F), and no attempt to draw or add power to them should be made until they warm up. Apparently the batteries aren't damaged by freezing, as long as you don't try to use them while still frozen.

Oh yea. Its time to retire our '01. So we went to try the new versions, to discover that the plug-in is currently unavailable as new around here (Boston). Didn't like the current generation, Sue couldn't stand the spoiler in the rear view, and I found the center console intrusive (but not as bad as the one on the CT 200H. If we had been able to get a plug in, we could get used to the view and room, as the 11 mile range of the battery would mean 80% of our trips were covered at least one way, and her work commute would be entirely EV.

The C bounced around a lot, and the driveline didn't like 65 MPH. Since its (I assume) the same engine, with a different battery and controls as our '01, its frenetic noises are a real contrast to the '01. I can't imagine a 450 mile day in the C (the poor hamsters), but its the standard visit the sister-in-law for Christmas that the '01 has done almost every year of its existence, with no signs of distress even when climbing the 70mph hills on I-80 in PA..

Current contender for its replacement is the E-Golf, with the Mazda taking over the Christmas trip permanently. (and with the Fed's EV tax relief, and the state's (MA) cutting a $2.5K check for every EV, the price is comparable to the full sized Prius, and noticeably below that of the plug-in had we got one)
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I removed the e-mail addresses and a couple of extra blank lines. Due to the 'top posting', the order is in reversed time. Still, I appreciate Jeff's insights that closely match mine. However, I'm leaning more towards a used Leaf but the e-Golf is attractive. What the heck, I'm 65 and qualify as a 'high beltline' sort of guy. <GRINS>

Bob Wilson