1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

70 MPG downsized-Prius by Toyota?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by endoildependency, Oct 8, 2005.

?
  1. 1. yes

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. 2. no

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. 3. not sure

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. endoildependency

    endoildependency New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2005
    247
    0
    0
    Location:
    between Sac/SF CA
    I'm thinking of an Echo-sized car, not loaded up with options and with cheaper interior, weighing just over a ton. Yes, a slightly inflated Insight (4 passenger).

    I think Toyota could do it tomorrow if it wanted, and that it would further revolutionize the hybrid market. Such a car, "stripped", could come in at around $15K.
     
  2. LaughingMan

    LaughingMan Active Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2005
    1,386
    2
    0
    Location:
    Marlborough, MA
    I wouldn't be surprised if the Prius was rated at 70 MPG in the near future, still being a mid-sized car.

    But developing other hybrid models around different usage models and different car classes is sure part of Toyota's plan.
     
  3. Ron Dupuy

    Ron Dupuy New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2004
    112
    0
    0
    Location:
    Fortuna, CA
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    I think Toyota is making money on all the do-dahs AND attracting sales. I think a stripped model would not be as profitable and not create the wait lists they have now. So basically, yes Toyota could build it, and no, they won't.
     
  4. tunabreath

    tunabreath New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2005
    226
    0
    0
    Location:
    Southern California
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    I think that if they did make this car, they'd offer it in a wide variety of colors and call it a Scion.
     
  5. seasalsa

    seasalsa Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2004
    1,278
    20
    0
    Location:
    Kent, WA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    II
    Probably not for the US but they are looking to China as their next major market and a smaller car with less bells and whistles would sell well there.
     
  6. baxsie

    baxsie Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2005
    141
    5
    0
    Location:
    Spokane, WA
    That is the basic idea: A hybrid 2-door commuter. If it has the Scion badge, fine. But it must have THS or a newer equivalent. I think one that is "Honda CRX" size would be about right.

    Then the nano-Prius would get 80 or 90. Lighter, smaller, lower drag . . . .
     
  7. Potential Buyer

    Potential Buyer New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2005
    287
    2
    0
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    The Insight is a terrible seller because few people are interested in such a car. Of course it doesn't help that the Insight costs as much as the HCH... :) But Toyota would never hybridize the Echo just because they'd look at the piss-poor sales of the Insight and conclude it would be a waste. Also there's still the stigma of hybrids being small and weak, which needs to be overcome, so nobody is making new subcompact hybrids right now, though they may in the future.
     
  8. Frank Hudon

    Frank Hudon Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2004
    4,147
    19
    0
    hybrid Echo hatchback in that Gold colour I think would sell really well. Probably better than a Prius. Thousands of the hatchbacks up here, there everywhere and Hybridized for even 5 grand more than a base hatchback would probably sell like crazy. The Echo sedan is a toad, I'm amased that they even sell it. I'd guess here the hatch outsells the sedan 20 to 1.
     
  9. DaveinOlyWA

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2004
    15,140
    611
    0
    Location:
    South Puget Sound, WA
    Vehicle:
    2013 Nissan LEAF
    Model:
    Persona
    well i was one of the two to say no. however, i must clarify my answer since it does not address the question asked;

    can they?

    yes...

    will they?

    no that is my answer
     
  10. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2004
    14,816
    2,498
    66
    Location:
    Far-North Chicagoland
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    With the technology available, any manufacturer should be able to produce a high-mileage vehicle. So to ask if Toyota could is limiting in my opinion. So I voted 'yes'.
     
  11. IALTMANN

    IALTMANN New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2005
    725
    0
    0
    Location:
    Texas
    Voted YES., AND THEY CAN KEEP IT THIS SIZE, offer the extended EV mode and battery bank, AS AN OPTION if necessary, offer a PLUG IN and extra battery bank to boost the factory system currently in use. Note that a California company is already developing and offering this system for about $12,000 right now. The car easily gets 70 MPG and can do even better if you have a shorter commute (under 20-30 miles total both ways), and you re-charge for a fraction of GASOLINE costs.
     
  12. DaveinOlyWA

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2004
    15,140
    611
    0
    Location:
    South Puget Sound, WA
    Vehicle:
    2013 Nissan LEAF
    Model:
    Persona
    the question does say smaller. Toyota can go to diesel and get that mileage without doing anything else. i contend that even a stripped down version of a hybrid will still be spendy and the insight does not work because there are too few who can afford to buy a car just for commuting purposes only
     
  13. hobbit

    hobbit Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2005
    4,089
    468
    0
    Location:
    Bahstahn
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    If people could get out of this idiotic mindset of "need power,
    must accelerate hell-bent all the time", the *existing* Prius could
    have an engine of half the current displacement, get well north
    of 100 mpg, and still have plenty of power for day-to-day travel.
    And that's without diesel or plug-in. The *technology* isn't the
    hard part at this point, it's how the car-buying audience has been
    "trained" if you can call it that.
    .
    _H*
     
  14. flareak

    flareak Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2004
    1,016
    20
    0
    Location:
    St Louis, MO
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    i think they should downsize but only in the sense that they can bring 40mpg for a 7sec 0-60 sports coupe. get rid of some of those hybrid stereotypes you know?

    oh and to hobbit: agreed, but won't happen
     
  15. Jerry P

    Jerry P Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2003
    322
    18
    0
    Location:
    Waterford, PA
    Vehicle:
    2021 Prius
    Model:
    XLE AWD-e
    The new Yaris that will be sold in the U.S. next spring is the perfect candidate for a small hybrid, and I think Toyota will do it in spring of 2007. The Yaris is a beautiful small car with lots of room. Much nicer than the Echo was. Scion xA would also be a good choice but I don't think Scion is meant to be in the same league as Toyota as far as brand recognition. Toyota=hybrid is the way things are being set up.
     
  16. Jay105000

    Jay105000 New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2005
    71
    0
    0

    I think it happened when the gas prices were $1 or around and those car were far too expensive has you said. With a gallon of gas climbing easily to $3 am not so sure.

    a hybrid Echoe thinking in people with low income or just starting their careers and struggling to pay for gas would not be a bad option for some.
     
  17. skruse

    skruse Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2004
    1,454
    97
    0
    Location:
    Coloma CA - Sierra Nevada
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    II
    The ICE in the Echo and Prius are the same. Toyota will boost Echo sales when Echos are hybridized. Our 2002 Echo averages 38 mpg (lots of highway driving).
     
  18. endoildependency

    endoildependency New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2005
    247
    0
    0
    Location:
    between Sac/SF CA
    I want to "consolidate" my own thinking in light of above statements.

    First, though it's turned out not to be commercially viable and soon likely will be withdrawn from the market, I have great respect for what Honda did with the Insight. While somewhat debatable, I think its "failure" is largely simply because it's a two-seater. (How many Miatas are sold, even though it's a great little car?)
    Secondarily, its narrower rear track and styling were a hair TOO "geeky", even by Prius standards.

    I drove one, and had it been a 4-passenger car, and with the stick-shift option, would have bought it.

    Second, I didn't suggest hybridizing the Echo, which turned out to be a poor successor to the dear departed Tercel. I could just as well have said "the SIZE of a Tercel".

    I disagree with flareak that hybrids have a "0-60 dog" image to overcome. Not any more, with the Lexus, Highlander and Escape on the road.

    I'm "lower-middle-class". My main source of income is Social Security, with PT jobs for my wife and me thrown in. Buying a "low-end" Prius for $23-24,000 out-the-door was a stretch, as it would be for many with my income.

    But at this stage of my life, I thought it was important to "make a statement", and to help the Gen 1 Prius succeed.

    Now that it has, and we see even more clearly where the petroleum "market" (yeah, right, "supply and demand" my a**!) is headed, I look around, and not just at the U.S., and ask, "what vehicle 'profile' is NEEDED in the world now more than any other, in terms of initial cost and MPG capability"?

    Yes, the Yaris would be a good candidate, and the xA, too.

    The market is there for a $15-16,000, 60+ MPG (I doubt the leap can be made to 100 or higher), 4-passenger car---perhaps even more in China and Europe than here. But my thinking is that Toyota can't afford to kill the original low-end "golden goose"---the Corolla (along with other low-end, 35+ MPG models)---just yet.

    Sorry for long post. But this subject is important to me.
     
  19. Marlin

    Marlin New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2005
    1,407
    10
    0
    Location:
    Bucks County, PA
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Does Toyota still sell the Echo? I've never seen it listed on their website.
     
  20. endoildependency

    endoildependency New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2005
    247
    0
    0
    Location:
    between Sac/SF CA
    Echo has been withdrawn from the NA market, to be replaced by Yaris in the spring
    (as Echo replaced Tercel, as Tercel replaced Starlet).