4th Gen to 3rd Gen engine swap - Pricing Question

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by youdiejoe, Mar 29, 2019.

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  1. youdiejoe

    youdiejoe Member

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    I have a 2010 Prius III with 162k miles and it's giving multiple cylinder misfire codes. From my searches here it seems the most reasonable course of action is to do an engine swap over a head gasket replacement or rebuild.

    I've found a shop here in the Los Angeles area that is doing 4th Gen engine swaps for the 3rd Gen Prius. I have a quote of $3,500 with a 12K mile engine, it includes a new water pump and egr cooler and manifold clean out, all other parts and labor are included plus a 2 year warranty.

    Does this price seem reasonable?

    Thanks!
     
    #1 youdiejoe, Mar 29, 2019
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  2. The Critic

    The Critic Resident Critic

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    Considering your location, the price seems reasonable. Depending on the condition of your current engine, repairing the existing engine may be a viable option. Realistically, the rest of the car is unlikely to last another 160K without another serious repair and you are rapidly approaching (if not already) a scenario where a serious repair will exceed the market value of the vehicle.

    I would consider repairing the existing engine under the following circumstances:
    - No current oil consumption. Favorable oil change history.
    - The engine has not been overheated
    - Only minimal driving has occurred since the Head Gasket issue has started
    - No usage of stop leak products.

    This is all assuming that there is no damage to the bottom end of the engine from hydrolocking.
     
    #2 The Critic, Mar 29, 2019
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  3. youdiejoe

    youdiejoe Member

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    Thanks for the reply, I recently purchased the car used with 157K miles on it. The actual oil maintenance history is unknown but the overall condition of engine and car seem to show that it was well cared for. The records with Toyota show that the previous owners did all the scheduled Toyota maintenance. Those records also shows the EGR valve was replaced due to "knocking at startup" @ 133K miles and a new water pump at 143k

    No oil consumption since last change @ 157K
    No overheating or loss of coolant
    No stop leak products used (at least not by me)

    The same shop quoted a top only rebuild of my engine @ $1,500 or a completely rebuilt 3rd gen engine for $2,500.

    At 162K miles this engine is quickly reaching a point that repairs on it seem less effective than replacing it with either a rebuilt lower mile 3rd gen engine (hard to find) or with an 4th gen with sub 50k miles (which are plentiful).
     
    #3 youdiejoe, Mar 29, 2019
  4. The Critic

    The Critic Resident Critic

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    Are you sure it needs a head gasket? There are many potential causes of misfires.

    If the engine is in good condition and doesn’t drink oil, repairing the head gasket gives you a good chance of getting another 100K miles. But the oil consumption “issue” becomes a wildcard.
     
    #4 The Critic, Mar 29, 2019
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  5. youdiejoe

    youdiejoe Member

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    Hmmm... the knocking on start-up has happened several times over the last few days and then today with the P302 code I just assumed that from what I have been reading here on the forums that head gasket was the most likely culprit.

    Just stepped out to the car and checked the oil level to make sure, level is good and color is fine and coolant is at the full line.
     
    #5 youdiejoe, Mar 29, 2019
  6. rosencrantz

    rosencrantz Member

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    I would ask what a “completely rebuilt 3rd gen engine” means. For $2500, this would be an option I’d consider IF the engine was rebuilt with 2015 style piston and rings (AND, I’d want to know what the mileage was on the rebuilt engine). Honestly, though, I think $3500 for an installed and warranted gen4 engine isn’t too bad a deal in the LA area.
     
    #6 rosencrantz, Mar 29, 2019
  7. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    If it's not losing a lot of oil, and the coolant levels are steady, consider just cleaning the EGR circuit stem-to-stern, and the intake manifold (paying special attention to the EGR passages), and see what that does. It's low-hanging fruit, doesn't hurt to try it first.
     
    #7 Mendel Leisk, Mar 29, 2019
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  8. The Critic

    The Critic Resident Critic

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    I would remove the spark plugs in the morning (after the car has been sitting all night) and check for coolant leakage. If there is no leakage, your problem is most likely with the intake manifold ports or the EGR cooler.
     
    #8 The Critic, Mar 29, 2019
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  9. youdiejoe

    youdiejoe Member

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    Thanks @The Critic and @Mendel Leisk for the input, I'll have a look at the spark plugs in the AM and I'm also looking at EGR cleaning info... both projects look like things I'm capable of doing myself and my weekend is clear to do it!
     
    #9 youdiejoe, Mar 29, 2019
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  10. The Critic

    The Critic Resident Critic

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    I use an inspection camera to check each cylinder for coolant intrusion. Try to find one locally if you don’t have one already.
     
    #10 The Critic, Mar 29, 2019
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  11. rosencrantz

    rosencrantz Member

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    The critic and Mendel bring up good points. Youdiejoe - you sound like a capable DIYer. Personally, I wouldn’t put much money into an early gen3 engine (with 160k+ miles) that I had 5k mile history with (unless I was capable of accurately determining what the problem might be). Otherwise, you could be throwing good money after bad.... but, that’s just me.
     
    #11 rosencrantz, Mar 30, 2019
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  12. The Critic

    The Critic Resident Critic

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    Any updates?
     
    #12 The Critic, Apr 1, 2019
  13. youdiejoe

    youdiejoe Member

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    I just finished a couple hours ago doing my EGR cooler/pipe/intake manifold cleaning along with putting in a new PCV valve and installing a oil catch can.

    I took my time, gathered parts and tools on Saturday, started pulling apart the car on Sunday morning had the parts off by lunchtime and took a break to take care of some other stuff, came back later in the afternoon once it had cooled down and started spraying down the EGR cooler with oven cleaner, letting it sit for 30 minutes and spraying in some more, repeating that till the entire can was soaking inside the cooler for the rest of the night.

    This morning I took it to the local spray wash and blew out all the gunk, so. much. gunk. Good as new. Manifold was very easy to clean with part cleaner and a brush kit I picked up at Harbor Freight Tools. The EGR passages, 3 out of 4 of mine were basically blocked and the 4th was not far from it. PCV valve was super easy since you have the manifold already off as well as the catch can install. All back together by 6 PM. Cleaned myself up and took the car for 60 mile spin on the highway and I can totally tell a difference in the power and how smooth the engine is sounding. Fingers crossed the gummed EGR circuit and intake manifold were the issues and not a gasket.
     
    #13 youdiejoe, Apr 1, 2019
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  14. youdiejoe

    youdiejoe Member

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    After a little over a month without the rough shudder start up, this morning I started it up and it happened. I've put a little less than 1000 miles on the car, no oil used in that time and no drop in the coolant level. The only thing I didn't do while I had it opened up was change the spark plugs or coils, should that be the next thing I look at?

    Just to restate, I gave the EGR pipe, cooler and manifold a full clean out, changed the PCV valve and installed a OCC, which I checked a couple of days ago and it had a rather minor amount of fluid in it.
     
    #14 youdiejoe, May 11, 2019
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  15. wheezyglider

    wheezyglider Active Member

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    By chance had it been sitting longer than usual between start-ups when the shudder happened?

    Our 2010 did something like this recently ~1200 miles after (if I may say) a very thorough EGR circuit cleaning, with a cylinder 4 misfire code pending (no CEL). It hadn't been started for a few days. In the past long sits have seemed more likely to lead to startup shudders. No measurable coolant loss here yet, but maybe it's a very small leak. Or maybe not related to that at all...
     
    #15 wheezyglider, May 12, 2019
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  16. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    You got an oil catch can installed :whistle:?
     
    #16 Raytheeagle, May 12, 2019
  17. wheezyglider

    wheezyglider Active Member

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    In my case, just the one Toyota calls the "Intake Manifold Assembly" so far :D. DMV renewal up soon-ish, after that maybe. (I know you "got a guy"...)
     
    #17 wheezyglider, May 12, 2019
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  18. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    More like “we’ve got a guy”:).

    A trip to San Ramon and you’re good;).

    Nothing to worry about (y).
     
    #18 Raytheeagle, May 12, 2019
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  19. wheezyglider

    wheezyglider Active Member

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    For curiosity I pulled off the airbox and tilted the throttle plate and there was a small but visible pool under the throttle body. It soaked up yea much:
    pool under TB 1500mi after EGR clean, no OCC.JPG
    That's after just under 1500mi past an EGR circuit clean (and PCV valve replacement), with no OCC. No idea what "normal" would be. Plenty of volatile smell (not just oil) -- hello misfire?

    Does make me wonder about that vacuum switch that feeds at the base of this pool, and how it behaves during startup.
     
    #19 wheezyglider, May 12, 2019
  20. youdiejoe

    youdiejoe Member

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    No long sits, I use the car nearly every day. Not long drives, but I take the time to let the engine run the warm up cycle at each start.
     
    #20 youdiejoe, May 13, 2019
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