$4/gallon is good? and $5 ? Same with $8

from the article "They're great for people who take lots of short trips..."

uh...i thought short trips were mileage killers while the ICE warmed up. i thought that was a given on any type of car.

 

Sure, it's great. Because it will force car companies to go to low carbon cars and drive people to driving them.

 

More expensive fuel will crush the economy and no one will be able to buy better cars if they can't afford them.

 

Why do we have to reinvent the wheel with all these parallel threads. I will leave my comments to the $120 barrel oil and the $12/gallon threads for now.

Icarus

 

What a joke! ound:

 

what can you expect from someone whose uses the term "newfangled"

 

He had a pretty simple understanding of hybrids in general, but the last statement you quoted is correct. The Prius gets considerably lower mileage in winter, of course most of that is due to the ICE needing longer to get to efficient running temperature. But anybody who has tried to start a car with a weak battery in winter knows that days below 20'F are a whole lot different than days at 40'F. The chemical reactions producing electricity happen less frequently when the molecules don't bump into each other as much.

But I think there's a disconnect between the title of this thread and the article that was referenced. They made no mention of why high gas prices are good.

 

Didn't mean to dis ya,,, I just get tired of the nay sayers who want to think that cheap energy will solve all our problems, and that cheap fuel is their right.

Icarus

 

It's great if you want a growing economy and suburban sprawl.
The 90's were a prime example of that - there's debate if Clinton did the right things for the economy or if he inherited it from the Bush Sr. administration, but the answer is really cheap oil fueled our growth then. The big problem was this was not sustainable, in a variety of ways.
Now we have to be a bit smarter to find opportunities with these challenges, but these opportunities are largely more sustainable ones.

 

Boo! Hiss! Heretic! Where are the stakes and firewood? How dare you suggest such a thing!


Tongue in cheek, but it is very frustrating/disappointing to hear people say that we don't need to change our life at all, just start drilling willy nilly and it will be okay.

 

Lower MPG because the ICE needs to warm up. But the ICE is not the battery. The second quote was about the battery causing the lower MPG.

 

I'm not quite sure what you are saying, perhaps I'm a bit thick. Are you arguing that economic growth AND suburban sprawl are good things?

Many people would argue the former (though not me for a variety of reasons) but few would argue the latter. Please explain if you wish.

Icarus.

PS To all those that would question my thought that a growing economy is not always a good thing. Economic is the only "Science" that it predicated on the idea that perpetual growth is not only good, but possible. Truth is it is not sustainable in the long term as we are (slowly) learning.

 

Cold temps do effect the charge and discharge characteristics and efficiencies of NiMH cells. Once the cabin air and self heating get the ESS up to temp there should be no impact. However, this does take some time depending on lots of factors; e.g., the ESS may never get warm on short trips or if it's -20C.

 

disputing what clinton did while in office does not take into consideration that the iraq war disrupted what was a healthy flow of oil out of the country. no matter what it was used for (paid for nukes, WMD, Chemicals, etc) it still supplied someone with oil. now that someone gets their oil elsewhere and that is oil that is no longer available on the general market.

now after 4 years, the oil output is almost half what is was previously... so blame clinton either by circumstance or happenstance, it does not matter. because bush was the man sitting there when it all happened and i think he is to blame and i also think he did it knowing full well the consequences of the current situation...

 

Does it really matter how high gas goes? It hurts those who can't afford to be hurt the most. But until it really hurts those that can afford it, we won't change. I can see the change here in Michigan. People are actually riding mass transit in Grand Rapids - ridership up 20%+. Scooters, mopeds, bike lanes and bicyclists even in the winter months. More people walking. What isfundamentally needed is a completely new and radical paradigm shift. We are loosing the technology war on many fronts. Its not just fuel efficiency - gas guzzling versus hybrid. It's sustainable, long term, renewable. We need to force the leaders- Big3 and Govt: Congress, states and local for these industries. We need to do it before it's too late or we will be buying that technology from China or Canada - I saw DaveinOLYWA's post with his ZENN- and continuing our growth of global debt and our continued dependence from someone else for our consumptive fuel needs. America once was a leader - think WW11. The shift we need is similar to that of John F. Kennedy's on the space race and getting to the moon. We need a new leader with a long term vision. The writing is already on the wall. If we don't step it up we will be buried by China, India.... As of right now we're just up to our throats and only choking. I don't know about you, but I'd rather not fight over declining oil reserves, but demand new technology, new ways of thinking and implemntation for sustainability on all fronts and get out of this hole.

 

Do you really think that without the Iraq War that Iraq would've have been able to increase the demand enough to keep up with supply? I have seen too many reports by those in the field that point toward the world's production of oil peaking, while demand continues to rise. Or is Bush the cause of peak oil as well? There have been a lack of a comprehensive energy policy for decades, that includes presidents from both sides of the aisle.

 

nope i dont

do i think it contributed to our current situation? (amongst SEVERAL other things)

yes i do.

am i glad we are in our current predicament?

absolutely!!!

it was a neccessary step and the sooner it happened the better. my only regret is that it did not have YEARS ago