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2010 Prius with coolant and spark plug issue

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Technical Discussion' started by Mellyman666, Aug 28, 2023.

  1. Mellyman666

    Mellyman666 Member

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    Hi! I have a 2010 Prius with 133k Kms on it. I bought from a person and got it inspected and all was « good » according to the mechanic. The car rattled and shook on start up but both the individual and the mechanic told us it was the hybrid generator.

    After 1 year with the car, I started getting check engines for the prestone and the sensor for the engine temp would pop up and go from time to time. Brought it to same mechanic; she changed the water pump and said it’d be fine. The problem came back after 2 months, and the same mechanic checked it 3 times before telling me just this month (took 4 months to get good answer- so yes don’t worry I’ll change mechanic) that there was a problem with the head gasket but that it was expensive to change (I’m very unsure of all the details here because the mechanic herself seemed confused). She told us to just keep topping up the prestone whenever the sign came on and that’s it, cause the only other solution was changing the whole motor.

    This week we got a new check engine- PO301-cylinder misfire (doesn’t say which). But all 4 spark plugs were changed 5 months ago by my husband and all worked fine these 5 months besides these problems.

    Ive been reading a few threads that seem to have the same problem….but only problem is I’m not super knowledgeable on cars (clearly if I got scammed into buying it while it rattled ).
    The rattling has definitely intensified since all these issues. I’m looking for a new mechanic who is specialized in this but was wondering if anyone could help me in layman terms, and chime in if they have had this problem or know the issue. Everything else runs perfectly. I’m just worried about the mechanic telling me to change the whole motor, at that point I’d get a new car. But the car cost me 12k one year ago so I’d really like to extend it’s life even for s few years and get some bang for my buck if possible.

    Thank you so much! ☺️
     
    bisco likes this.
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    welcome!
    unfortunately, you unknowingly purchased a car model with a known head gasket issue that has been discussed here ad nauseum for many years.
    the problem stems from improperly designed piston rings which allow too much combustion byproducts pass into an improperly designed egr valve (exhaust gas recirculation)

    if the egr valve and intake manifold aren't cleaned regularly (and toyota doesn't recommend doing this in their maintenance schedule so no one knows but us) the pressure build up blows a hole in an improperly designed head gasket, allowing coolant to escape into your exhaust.
    the low coolant allows the engine to overheat, damaging the entire engine.

    you are right about your mechanic, she (and most, even dealers) doesn't understand what the shaking means.
    changing the spark plugs smooths things out for awhile, until they get clogged again by the combustion blow by.
    at this point, your best bet is probably another car, and you can weigh that against the cost of a used motor installation, but there are a couple of other very expensive systems on the 2010-2015 prius which might be a concern down the road.
    if you don't diy, my advice would be to stay away from hybrids, and look for something like a corolla or similar decent mileage vehicle.
    all the best!
     
    Grit likes this.
  3. Mellyman666

    Mellyman666 Member

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    Hi

    I read somewhere that if the coolant hasn’t gotten into the engine and the oil hasn’t gotten into the coolant, the problem is still repairable via changing the head gasket. Do you know if this is true? I also did some research and spoke to a reliable mechanic who told me the code was most likely not even my spark plugs but a code for my head gasket or coils (as apparently the PO301 code can be many things and doesn’t necessarily mean a spark plug problem.

    I’m planning to get it checked at a hybrid dealer, but if they tell me it’s the head gasket and that the engine is still ok, I was planning to have the head gasket changed (either DIY or by a mechanic, still haven’t decided if it’s something my dad is willing to embark on with me as a one day long change ).
    Thank you so much for you reply !! I just hope I can get it fixed without needing to change the motor or buy a new car as that would be 12 k down the drain!

     
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  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    yes, if the rest of the engine checks out as undamaged, a new headgasket will work.

    idk how to be sure there is no other damage, so you want to do some research.

    watch
     
  5. Grit

    Grit Senior Member

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    Dump stop leak in the crankcase and resell it. Don’t let the moral police here pull ya over but many have done it.
     
  6. JohnPrius3005

    JohnPrius3005 Active Member

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    This is like selling your soul to the devil. You will find someone who can DIY and give them full disclosure and you will lose far less than $12k. And still have your soul.
     
    Danno5060 and bisco like this.
  7. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

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    P0301 is a fairly specific code. P03xx indicates misfire, P0300 means general, non-specific misfire, and P0301 through P0304 mean misfire at cylinder one through cylinder four respectively.

    Gen 3, model year 2010 through 2015, without fail, will blow head gaskets, anywhere after 100k miles, almost always at cylinder one, or two (the failure occurs at the adjoining wall between those two cylinders).

    Symptoms include code P0301/02, rattle/shake at start up, and coolant loss. All of this is due to incompressible coolant leaking past the head gasket and accumulating in a cylinder, typically overnight, making the first cold-start in the morning most prone to symptoms.

    Neglected long enough, you’ll get breakage in the damper between engine and transaxle, bent piston arms, broken pistons, and/or a hole in the engine block.

    My “hunch” is the main culprit for these head gasket failures is the gross carbon clogging that inevitably occurs with the Exhaust Gas Recirculation system, newly minted and employed with 3rd gen, and very evidently now, not sufficiently tested by Toyota.

    I believe periodic cleaning of the carbon in the EGR system will prevent the head gasket failure, and that is what I’m doing with our 2010, time will tell. For more info on that see the first two links in my signature (on a phone turn it landscape to see signature).

    Your car is showing all the symptoms of typical 3rd gen head gasket failure, and if you decide to keep it, it’s imperative to address that first. There’s links on that in my signature as well.

    Do clean the EGR in conjunction with head gasket repair, including the EGR passages in the intake manifold. This can be a DIY job, for next to nothing. The only component that “may” need replacement is the EGR valve, which has a relatively fragile internal mechanism, prone to wear. That component is a bit over $200 USD. You should probably replace the pliable gaskets at intake manifold too, around $30.

    Head gasket failure at 133k kms is unusually early, possibly not too advanced. Boroscope inspection of the cylinders (for evidence of coolant leaks) and/or leak-down test (pressurizes the cylinders and checks how well pressure is held, and where leaks occur), are the go-to tests for diagnosis.

    just curious: you ID the car as a “5”. It’s Canadian spec car? What size are the wheels; they’re OEM? Does it have the headlight washers and fog lights? That would be “Touring”, what we have. If it had 15” rims and dynamic cruise control, I believe that’s called “Technology”.

    attached shows what touring looks like.
     

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    #7 Mendel Leisk, Aug 30, 2023
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2023
  8. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

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    Grit, you’re losing it; it’s dump stop-leak in the coolant reservoir.

    seriously, grit is being humorous, I think…

    don’t use stop-leak products for a head gasket issue, they’re a short term, bandage solution, make an expensive mess of everything the coolant passes through. They’re the go-to chemical for unscrupulous sellers; should be bloody illegal.
     
    #8 Mendel Leisk, Aug 30, 2023
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2023
  9. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    We could know how true that "without fail" part is if we had another site just like PriusChat but where everybody with a Prius signs in and posts when their head gasket hasn't blown.
     
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  10. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

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  11. Mellyman666

    Mellyman666 Member

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    Hi to all!
    Just got back from a Toyota dealership who confirmed the issue (I didn’t want to start DIY work without a proper diagnosis). He confirmed that it’s the head gasket (which gave the code to the first cylinder misfire). He said he can’t guarantee the engine is in good condition but that if the problem is fairly recent, starting with a head gasket change first and seeing if it solves the issue is best.

    It’s been maybe a few days that the rattles at start up are pretty bad (almost every start up has it). I’ve been using EV mode to start up and switching to gas at around 30km/h and rattles have lessened.

    Since the rattling is getting worse I don’t want to make matters worse so I will stop taking the car as of now and will attempt a DIY head gasket replacement with my dad and husband. my plan; change head gasket ourselves (after much tutorial and watching videos- both my husband and dad are pretty handy with cars and my husband does all his own work so I’m trying to be confident about it ). If problem is fixed, great, saved a few grand. If not, I was thinking shopping around for a used engine because Toyota is quoting me 9k for an engine replacement , and getting it installed by someone.
    Anyone have any KIND opinions to give me on what my plan is? I know I’m not great in cars so my plan may be completely idiotic, but i know people online can get mean when they see a newbie, so please be nice

    thank you all for your help!!
     
  12. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

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    if you haven’t checked it out:

    Gasket Masters video too:


     
    #12 Mendel Leisk, Aug 31, 2023
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2023
  13. Grit

    Grit Senior Member

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    Thought your dad and husband was the plan? o_O
     
  14. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

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    Certainly the head gasket is bad. Once you have the head off, you can look at the cylinder walls.
    Are you burning oil? If so, the walls will be scored unevenly. If the oil burning is not bad, you will
    probably be okay. Then you can start saving for a short block. Toyota sells them for an average
    of $2000. But you can do some searching and find remanufactured engines for about the same
    price, or slightly more. Same with a short block, but for less than Toyota's price.

    Make sure you get the FULL engine gasket kit. It will have the gaskets and "O" rings for the
    water pump, thermostadt housing, and a few others I can't remember.....

     
  15. Mellyman666

    Mellyman666 Member

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    You've been really helpful mendel! Thank you!! I saw on another thread that you have the whole repair manual for this section that you were going to send to OP on that thread. Was wondering if you still had it and were still willing to share? Thank you again so much for your info!
     
  16. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

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    Here's the whole engine section, simplest way to skin the cat (terrible expression...).
     

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  17. Mellyman666

    Mellyman666 Member

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    Thank you so much! I started skinning the cat yesterday with the video you had posted. Made it to about 5 mins out of 40 lol slowly but surely. My car's frame pieces are very rusty....no experience with cars as I said so hope it's nothing to be too worried about. No rust showing on the exterior body
     
    Mendel Leisk likes this.
  18. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

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    Even here on the west coast the suspension on ours, particularly the rear, was rusting up in 4~5 years, when I started paying attention.

    I did a couple of sessions, one for the rear and one for the front, put it up on safety stands, removed some plastic pieces for access, brushed off all the loose rust/grit and coated with boiled linseed oil, applied mostly with brush, some hard to reach with rags.

    revisited a couple of years later, and it’s still holding up good.
     
  19. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    Sorry you had to find out the hard way about these engines, particularly after bring lied to about the symptoms when you bought it.

    A year later the mechanic admits
    Many mechanics and forum “experts” are confused about gen3 head gasket symptoms because they don’t present in the traditional way.

    No coolant in the oil. No obvious loss of coolant. Passes a leakdown and gas in the coolant test. Occasional misfire codes usually lead to the plug, coil and injector parts cannon. Often $1000-$1500 of wasted parts including a water pump in your case.

    Too often, damaging sealer gets thrown in to temporarily mask the issue. Forum guys claim months or a year of success without mentioning they keep dumping in more gunk. Hopefully your seller was not one of those scumbags.

    At an advanced state the rattles are no longer occasional. The “Prestone” antifreeze top offs become more frequent. The piston rods may slightly bend and the aluminum engine sometimes warps.

    The oil rings were flawed from the factory and acknowledged by Toyota. The head gasket itself was revised. But the typical old gen3 engine will be massively carboned up and have a liquid sludge in the intake.

    So the same mechanic who did not “know” about the failed head gasket somehow now knows the only guaranteed fix a year later is a rebuilt engine (probably not yours) with new pistons, rings, rebuilt head and all the gaskets. Dealers, pro mechanics and your shop know they can’t guarantee a simple head gasket swap.

    Be very careful with the timing chain alignment. Many return to do timing several times.

    A junkyard low mile engine fully rebuilt is the guaranteed fix.
     
    #19 rjparker, Sep 5, 2023
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2023
  20. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

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    Maybe “flawed” is a misnomer? AFAIK the rings met the design specs put out by Toyota, which included a markedly low outward springiness. Their motivation likely being to reduce friction, and consequently increase mpg. 2015 model year engines (and some 2014’s) have revised piston rings, with increased springiness. If you look at Fuelly year-by-year stats for 3rd gen, there’s a 0.3~0.4 mpg drop in 2015, vs the earlier years.

    Toyota Prius MPG - Actual MPG from 8,884 Toyota Prius owners

    3rd gen Prius (model year 2010-2015) also have a newly minted EGR system (Exhaust Gas Recirculation), which allows the engine to run leaner, again for mpg gain. As long as it’s functional.

    We turned out to be the Guinea Pigs, with an EGR system which very reliably clogs with carbon, somewhere around 100~150k likes, and does so asymmetrically, with the final EGR passage to cylinder one being first to completely bung up.

    It’s the common wall between cylinders one and two where the head gasket usually fails.