2010 Prius Knocking (Raptor Sound)

2010 Prius making knocking sounds.
< Not exactly the "death rattle" that sometimes happens when you first start the car. >

* While driving, the sound reminds me of the Raptors in Jurassic World.

Update 10-16-15 See attached Techstream Capture File Examples. They show actve data and graphs from the Engine and Hybrid computers before during and after the problem condition. Simply open the file in Techstream and review the example cases.

See example videos:

Knocking at idle (Knocking Noise starts at ~19 seconds into the video):

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Knocking while driving: (Good examples at ~24 seconds into the video)

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Knocking while driving with Torque OBD2 Monitors: (Noticeable example starts at ~28 seconds into the video):

The car has over 300K miles and the problem started a few months back. At first the sound only occurred while driving under certain load conditions.

The problem would occur at intermittent times. Normally at low speeds with heavy loads (going up hill with low to medium acceleration). Also occurring for a short time when letting off the accelerator.
Never occurring at moderate to heavy acceleration. Never at idle.

Recently the shaking / raptor noise started to occur while idling.
* This problem is now easily created at idle each and every time the HV battery drops below 2 bars and requires charging. The engine change is immediate and starts and stops in sync with the extra load of the HV battery charge cycle.

Placing the car in the maintenance mode, the car will start and idle normally then immediately start and stop the knocking when it switches from HV charging to non-charging mode.

There are no Check Engine light.

Things I've done to troubleshoot the problem:

* Swapped the following parts with another working 2010 Prius.

* Coils and spark plugs
* VVT solenoid
* Cam Sensor
* EGR Valve Control
* Fuel Injectors
* MAF Sensor
* MAP Sensor
* Evap Control Valve

* Cleaned the intake manifold (It was full of carbon)

(This was done about a month before this problem started to intermittently appear).​

Prior to cleaning the intake manifold the car was shaking and misfiring under certain high torque condition and generating a P0304 check engine code). Once I cleaned the intake manifold the problem was fixed. I had no more check engine incidences and the shake was gone.

Any help one this problem is greatly appreciated... I am stumped on this problem.

 

Thanks for the feedback Christian.

I cleaned the intake manifold earlier this year and it was a mess. I have two 2010 Prius cars and they both had the carbonized intake manifold problem. Both had the familiar knocking sound and both were generating misfire codes. After I cleaned the intake manifold the problems were resolved.

The thing that is strange about this problem is the absence of any check engine codes.

There two EGR pipes:

A. The Manifold "Pipe" (from the EGR valve forward to the manifold).

This is the one many people find dirty but from my experience... it is pale in comparison to the intake manifold.
* I checked this pipe recently... both this and the intake manifold are still clean from the work I did in April.


B. The EGR pipe (from the EGR valve rearward toward the exhaust pipe).

I have never looked at this or the pipe that actually connects to the exhaust header.

Anyone have any experience with this being a problem?


The injectors are also on my mind... do you think they would case the idling problem that I posted in the video?

Any ideas on how to check / troubleshoot problems in this area?

Still trying to get a handle on my engine knocking problem.

Has anyone been able to use the "Active Test" features in Techstream?

Specifically I want to use "Control the EGR Step Position"

When I attempt this function I get the following error:

Error (S999-99)

Fatal Error
Error Code: 0xC0040001

If the problem persists please submit an error report using the F12 key.

I am running Techstream Ver 9.10.037 with a Mini VCI

Any help is much appreciated.

 

I didn't make a tutorial at the time... but I did generate some documentation from my notes. See the attached PDF file"Gen III Intake Manifold Cleaning.pdf"

In the attachment you will find 2 examples from different 2010 Prius cars.

You can also find similar reference to the problem at the following threads:

Prius III engine knocking at high torque low RPM (solved) | PriusChat
P0304 MISFIRE ON CYLINDER 4 | PriusChat

 

Thanks for your feedback bisco... I could really use some help on this... This problem is driving me nuts!

I swapped the Fuel Injectors last weekend. They were not perfect, the replacement injector made an improvement in LTFT but it did not fix the problem.

Troubleshooting Performed to date:

* I have two (2) 2010 Prius cars. I have swapped the following parts with the working 2010 Prius:
Swapping to the known good parts did not have a negative affect (on either car).
.
* Coils and spark plugs
* VVT solenoid
* Cam Sensor
* EGR Valve
* Fuel Injectors
* MAF Sensor
* MAP Sensor
* Evap Control Valve

* Cleaned the Intake Manifold (this was done about a month before this problem started to intermittently appear).
Prior to cleaning the intake manifold the car was shaking and misfiring under certain high torque condition.
Once I cleaned the intake manifold the problem was fixed and I had no more check engine incidences and the shake was gone.

* This shaking / raptor noise problem is easily created at idle each and every time the HV battery drops below 2 bars and requires charging. The engine change is immediate and starts and stops in sync with the extra load of the HV battery charge cycle.

The problem also occurs when you drive it under load... so it's easy to assume its load related... BUT is does not do it under load when the car is ran from a cold start. There is a window of time ~ less than 1 minute where the car runs with the ICE under load and the (raptor) sound is not present. Once the car is up to temp (or whatever constitutes this delay) the problem is present. Under very heavy loads (~floor the gas petal) the problem is not present or not distinguishable.

If it is simply load related... what is the solution? What can I do to narrow the issue and fix the problem?

I am trying to focus on the maintenance mode idle test as this is repeatable and does not involve other driving variables. This is why I am trying to understand what happens then the HV charging process is initiated.

Do you know any details on what happens when the HV charge process is present?

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The other odd thing is the car sometimes makes a hissing sound. The sound comes and goes. It changes with engine RPM. In the last week it is gone. The problem was present before the sound and it may not be related. I have not been able to determine the source of the sound... several people have tried to find it by checking to exhaust and intake leaks... we simply could not find the source when the problem was present.

We checked the exhaust with a smoke test... nothing. We checked for intake leaks using the propane trick and by spraying carb cleaner around all the hoses and intake manifold etc. (looking for changes in RPMs). We also tried to find it with a stethoscope and of course we tried with hand, eyes and ears... we could not find it.

The knocking / raptor engine noise is present with or without the hissing sound. Lately the hissing sound is absent.
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I think you are right on target with both points:

* I'm making the assumption... even if the there was a blockage from the exhaust to the EGR valve... that this would not cause misfires or the problem I am experiencing.

I say this because:

A. It’s not uncommon for people to add EGR blocker plates on other car designs.

B. When I use the Techstream "Active Test" mode to modify the EGR position, I see what I think is normal results.

While idling, the EGR is supposed to be closed and the monitor shows this status... If I open the EGR valve the engine starts to run rough (as expected).​

* I'm glad to hear they may have addressed this problem with the new 2016 model. I believe they are well aware of the problem. When you talk to the techs at the dealership they certainly know to replace the intake manifold when they see a lot of cold start misfires.

The fact that Toyota did a TSB and implemented a new intake manifold design certainly confirms the problem. The puzzling thing is why does Toyota continue to ignore the problem? Once they discovered that the TSB/new intake design did not fix the issue... why did they leave us hanging?

The problem has not gone away... every 3rd gen Prius has the problem.

Quite frankly it’s a real embarrassment when others witness our beloved Prius start up and sound like it’s about to fall apart (clanging like a box of rocks). << They ask what's wrong with your car!!!... Aah that’s normal operation... Toyota thinks this is OK.>>

I hope Toyota will soon wake up and honor their good reputation and provide a fix or recommendation for better operation (similar to the late recalls/service enhancements they did on the Gen2 cars).

Toyota, if you're listening... it's never too late to do the right thing...

 

At 1st I thought it may be something like that... but the mounts look good.

What drove me away from this focus was when it started to do it in a stationary position. At soon as the HV charging is initiated the noise starts. Take a look as the 1st video that shows it in the maintenance mode at 1000rpm.

It is fine until the HV charging begins. Once the HV charging starts the noise immediately follows.

 

The HV battery was replaced at 208,068 miles back in December of 2012.

 

Maybe... I guess I could do another compression test. I did one back in April when I checked the general status on the car.

I've never seen a blown head gasket appeared and disappeared on command (as in with and without a load).

 

Update 10-16-15

Attached are example charts from various sensors showing status before during and after the knocking.

I captured this data using Techstream v10.00.028. I'm fairly new to this tool but now that I have a more reliable VIM (in the Tactrix), I am more impressed with software’s capabilities.

Except where noted all of these test are done with the car in park and in the maintenance mode (idling at ~1000 rpm). The knocking begins and ends when the HV battery charging begins/ends.

Its easy to tell when the the HV charging begins as you see the MAF or MAP sensors immediacy rise and stay constant (as in a square wave) from the increased load… (which marks the knocking time frame). Other items of reference that occur at this same time are the Closed Throttle Position SW (changing to off) and the Engine Independent (changing from Operate to Not Opr).

I also included the raw Techstream data file. If you have a copy of the program (downloads sited on this and other forums) you can open the file and review the data in real time. You can view instantaneous data points, create unlimited data charts and compare any and all sensors in real time.

'The Techstream capture file has several recording of interest... but I think the 4th and 5th data set are the easiest to visualize the problem. Also note that the captures after 5pm show different fuel trim data as those were recorded on the replacement set of injectors (hence the LTFT settings are working their way back to 0-5%).

* The data shows an uncanny consistent set of misfires on cylinder #1 starting immediately after the HV charging load starts and immediately stopping when the charging load ends.

Why only cylinder #1 and why so consistent???

Maybe I missing something... but I still can't understand what’s the root cause. I am posting this in hopes that someone has seen this before or can review this data and pinpoint the problem area.

I included 31 files in the "Prius Misfire - Techstream Example Capture JPG's" zip file. Hopefully its not too overwhelming and possibly useful to others in future situations.

Also in the data sets are examples of the second Prius that does not have this problem. Jpg files from this car start with P2 (as in Prius #2).

Thank in advance for your help!