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How to choose a good used transaxle. Ideas?

Discussion in 'Generation 1 Prius Discussion' started by orange4boy, Oct 25, 2009.

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  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    There is no external test point although there is Toyota proprietary test cable. You really have to take the case off and there is a significant risk in that. Whatever you do, don't try to go through the main cable insulation. The traction battery is isolated from the frame and there are three, safety relays.

    The only sensible way is to remove the traction battery and put it on a bench. Personally, I would hold off until you have a scanner and manuals.

    You've diagnosed the failure ... nothing to learn from an oil sample.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #21 bwilson4web, Oct 30, 2009
  2. orange4boy

    orange4boy Member

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    Not necessarily. It may just have been the last nail in the coffin. Here's the story from the fleet manager. Tremblay is their service provider and the car was brought to them with some kind of transmissions problem. The tech entered "transmission wonky" an it was decided then to take it to the dealer:

    I wish I knew when the plug was pulled. So far, it's a mystery.
     
    #22 orange4boy, Oct 31, 2009
  3. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Sorry, I forgot to mention the ground fault interruption system. If the resistance to ground of either side of the traction battery falls below several megaohms, it takes power off of the three safety relays to isolate the traction battery on each end and breaks the middle. The system is so sensitive that an electrolyte leak will trip it. You never want to do anything to compromise the insulation and I believe the main power cables are shielded.

    A photo of the pan would help but I can imagine someone driving over a curb or rock in such a way as to loosen and start to unscrew the plug. Once loosened, the oil would leak out and vibration would cause the plug to unscrew and drop off. Loss of oil and the rest is burnt toast.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #23 bwilson4web, Oct 31, 2009
  4. orange4boy

    orange4boy Member

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    In a way, I suppose it's a good thing because it's not an MG2 failure/manufacturing defect, just a accidental loss of fluid. One less negative reliability statistic.
     
    #24 orange4boy, Oct 31, 2009
  5. Shubin Andrey

    Shubin Andrey Junior Member

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    is it possible to buy used transaxle including the seller's warranty for some valuable time period in USA ?
     
    #25 Shubin Andrey, Nov 2, 2009
  6. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    #26 Patrick Wong, Nov 2, 2009
  7. orange4boy

    orange4boy Member

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    It would be tough to drop it in, find out it's bad, remove it and get to back to the seller within a week. The last time I replaced a tranny, in a Volvo, there was a one month return policy that I didn't have to use. Things have changed since then. That's why I need to perform as many tests as possible. I'm hoping to find one close so I can pick it up myself.

    Update: The tranny died of thirst for sure:[​IMG]

    Slow leak through that tear...Fast leak out the drain.

    Happened to me once in my beetle. The oil drain plug let loose "for some reason" *ahem* and I lost 6 litres of oil in 100 feet. The oil light saved my engine and luckily a fire truck passed as I was stopped and cleaned up my mess.:redface:
     
    #27 orange4boy, Nov 2, 2009
  8. orange4boy

    orange4boy Member

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    Found a few at Gundies Auto Recycling which have a 6 month warranty if installed by a certified tech. I have a friend who could sign off on it.

    2002
    Transmission
    Toyota Prius 45,000--km--72,464 A B90519 $850.91
    2002
    Transmission
    Toyota Prius AUTO (CVT) 77,000--km--123,994 A B90433 $752.91
    2002
    Transmission
    Toyota Prius 1.5,AT 93,298--km--150,238 A PS69 $700

    Will probably go for the lowest mileage one. Have to pick it up in Bellingham.

    Found one locally for $900 but with unknown mileage. This one comes with a 4 month warranty. With exchange it's about the same as 850 US. I can look at this one on Wednesday and if it looks good I'll probably get it and save the border hassles.
     
    #28 orange4boy, Nov 2, 2009
  9. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Ok, I'm going to suggest a couple of sensible precautions and why:

    1. Flush the transaxle - it has probably been in different orientations and that means the accumulated gunk has had a chance to wander into places it should not be. Hobbit found a 'plug' at the top of the NHW20 transaxle and there may be one on the NHW11. Assume filthy, wretched previous vehicle oil has sloshed about. Try to flush out as much of the old stuff as possible without stressing the assembled unit.
    2. Drop the pan and wipe all exposed parts throughly - this will also give you a chance to look for 'bad stuff' in the sump. There is a small nook to the rear that the differential gear is in that can barely be reached via a small, finger sized galley hole. Be creative!
    3. Careful about foreign lubricants - straight kerosene might be OK for a flush oil but it has not been tested. If you use it, you are the newest, junior Prius, materials engineer. This might be a place where parts from the failed transaxle may give a clue. Either OEM Type T-IV or Type WS transaxle oils are known to be safe.
    4. Clean, clean, clean, clean ... Oh did I mention clean?
    5. Last chance to check the oil pump ... be sure to have a set of gaskets.
    My high mileage transaxle appears to shed small bits of the silicon sealant that I've found in the pan. It looks like pinkish plastic bits.

    GOOD LUCK!
    Bob Wilson
     
    #29 bwilson4web, Nov 2, 2009
  10. orange4boy

    orange4boy Member

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    I like the idea of a flush but I think I'm going to steer clear of the kerosene and do a very quick fluid change instead. I don't like the idea of a solvent sloshing around and thinning the fluid and eating into who knows what. Drop it in new fluid, drive a couple dozen miles, replace with new.

    All the other advise, I will take. Clean? I think I'll scrub out the inside of the case with a bit of sandpaper and maybe sandblast the case so it's all spotless. Haha. just kidding. Makes me shudder just to think about it.

    I think I will start the new thread soon.
     
    #30 orange4boy, Nov 2, 2009
  11. orange4boy

    orange4boy Member

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    Wreckers! I should know better. I got there today to find a 2007 engine and transaxle. He didn't know about the different generations. So I have to take the ferry back into town tomorrow because he is bringing one in. For sure a 2003 and this one apparently has 75000 K on it. He gave me a deal on the 03 for my trouble though. We'll see how it looks tomorrow.
     
    #31 orange4boy, Nov 5, 2009
  12. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Checkout Tom's photos from swapping the transaxle. He has shown exactly what needs to be done and it is so simple:

    1. Remove inverter and stuff on top
    2. Lift car front
    3. Remove steering assembly
    4. Remove wheels and axles
    5. Put dolly under transaxle
    6. Loosen and drop down
    Much easier than the whole engine assembly!

    Bob Wilson
     
    #32 bwilson4web, Nov 5, 2009
  13. orange4boy

    orange4boy Member

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    Called ahead this morning to the wrecker. Same B.S. They brought in a 2005. Now he wants more money to look for another one. Bwaahaahaahaa... That guy's a comedian.

    I found another transaxle in Edmonton for $1000 which is the high end of the price range but this one apparently has only 19000 Km on it. Almost new. Considering that if problems occur with these they show up at 150,000km, I think it's worth the extra $$ to get this one. Shipping would be $90 to Vancouver.

    Started taking the car apart starting with the cowl and wipers. So far,a joy. Simple to disassemble and well thought out. A bit of a mess though as it catches all manner of organic debris.
     
    #33 orange4boy, Nov 6, 2009
  14. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Yes, that would be a great buy as long as it really is from a Classic and not 2G as was the case with the other transaxles offered to you.

    There were only 53K Classic shipped to the US. My guess is that Canada might have 5K or fewer of that model. So it may not be easy (or cheap) to obtain good salvage parts...
     
    #34 Patrick Wong, Nov 6, 2009
  15. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Uh oh. You may want to drop the glove compartment and pull out the cabin air filter. Stuff from the cowl goes down the air inlet and is stopped by the cabin filter.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #35 bwilson4web, Nov 6, 2009
  16. orange4boy

    orange4boy Member

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    Main battery is at two bars.

    Don't know why I didn't think about just looking at the MFD with the car on.:doh:
     
    #36 orange4boy, Nov 7, 2009
  17. orange4boy

    orange4boy Member

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    Transaxle is from a 2001 for sure. They sent me the VIN of the car it came from. Hmmm, I could do a record search on it to be sure.

    They are sending it today so it may get here before the weekend. 101 day satisfaction guarantee not including shipping or labour.

    Excellent to deal with so far. Helpful, friendly and up front. Galaxies away from that local import place.

    It will be a breeze to change the tranny oil! Once it gets here, I'll start the install thread.
     
    #37 orange4boy, Nov 12, 2009
  18. PeterHaas

    PeterHaas Member

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    The three windings are "wye-connected", therefore a winding-to-frame short in any of the three windings will show a fault, as a fault in X will also show as a fault in Y and Z, just as a fault in Y will also show as a fault in X and Z, just as a fault in Z will also show as a fault in X and Y.

    The resistances to frame will be different in each case, of course, but all three will show a Hi-Pot test failure.

    MG1 and MG2 should both be Hi-Pot tested, although if anticipating a replacement of just one of those, then just that one may be Hi-Pot tested to save a little time.
     
    #38 PeterHaas, Aug 10, 2015
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