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Bought an older house - help me make it more energy efficient

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by Danny, Oct 9, 2009.

  1. Danny

    Danny Admin/Founder
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    Many of you know that we recently moved to Charlotte, NC. We decided to take advantage of the market and bought a 1973 split-level home that has been pretty much completely renovated on the inside. The main problem with the house so far is that all/most of the things that effect energy efficiency are either original to the 1973 construction or just flat out don't exist.

    I have not had an energy audit done yet (Duke Power will do one for free once we live here for 4 months), but here's a run-down of the current status of the house to the best of my knowledge:

    • Single-pane windows
      • Good condition, no rot, fresh paint.
    • Attic has a small layer of batt insulation. In most of the areas the insulation has become compacted. DOE suggests an R-Value of 41 in our attic, and I know it's no where near that.
      • Plan on blowing cellulose insulation up to the top of the attic floor joists, then putting boards on top of that.
    • Not too sure what the insulation looks like under the house - I haven't crawled all the way through the crawlspace to see. I do know that it's been in the upper 40s/lower 50s in the morning here recently and the floor has been cold.
    • We have a fireplace in the downstairs portion of the split, but it does not have a damper installed in it.
    • The garage is right under the bedroom area of the house. It has the original wooden garage door and as far as I can tell there is no insulation in the ceiling between the garage and the living space. To install insulation up there would be a real PITA since we'd probably have to take out a portion of the ceiling every few feet to blow insulation up between the joists.
    So I guess I'm wondering, if you had to prioritize a To-Do List to make a 70's era house more energy efficient, what would you do and how would you list them? I know single-pane windows are bad as far as efficiency goes, but it's hard to swallow some of the quotes we've gotten to replace 21 windows in the house.

    The house was pretty comfortable during the summer (we moved in in the middle of July), and our electricity bills were pretty low. But as Fall has started to hit in small spurts, it seems like the cold is coming into the house and just staying here.

    Thanks for your input!
     
  2. hyo silver

    hyo silver Awaaaaay

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    1973 is an older house? Mine's 1939. :)

    Ohh, where to start...attic insulation is generally a higher priority than in the walls, but plugging the air leaks should probably come first. I'd suggest some kind of plug to fit tightly over the fireplace opening. Yeah, just a sheet of plywood with some rigid foam on the back for now. You can paint the front - pretty and warm don't always go together.

    Yes, those single pane windows are basically just big holes in the wall as far as the heat is concerned. Unfortunately, replacing them will likely cost more than the heat will. But, there are things you can do. Heat-shrink clear plastic window film will seal the draughts, and aren't all that noticeable once you get the hang of installing them without wrinkles. Thicker curtains will also help keep the heat in. If you're handy, you could make storm windows for the outside.

    How do feel about the aesthetics of your garage ceiling? What about putting sheets of rigid foam right over what's there? The blown-in stuff works alright on floors and ceilings, but tends to settle in walls, so you get cold spots again a few years later.

    In the meantime, some down booties will keep your feet toasty, and another layer of fleece is always a good idea. Sleep with a touque on, if you have to. :D
     
  3. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    Throw a match to it and build new

    Seriously

    I've reno'd enough old homes to tell you right now, that I swear to whatever god you want me to swear to, I'd never do it again

    Why?

    You have some sort of attic space. You can't put batt down, then boards on top. You will have condensation, even in a relatively mild climate like NC. If you tried that up here, the gyproc would become soggy and fall down from the ceiling

    Probably 2x4 exterior walls? A 2x6 exterior wall is MUCH more energy efficient and tighter. You can also use modern techniques, like blown foam insulation

    BASF Canada - Polyurethanes

    or if you use regular batt, you can use heavy poly vapor barrier, with all seams Tuck taped, and Accoustic sealant applied to the bottom edge.

    Back in "the good ole days" if they even used vapor barrier, it was just overlapped and expected to work as-is. A significant amount of air intrusion comes from the bottom if no Accoustic sealant is used

    Modern homes up here require, by code, airtight covers around switch plates or wall plugs that are located on exterior walls. A lot of air intrusion will come from the boxes if they don't have those airtight construction, with the vapor barrier also Tuck taped to the box

    A house that old may very well have clay pipes to hook up to the street. I once spent $2,200 to have a front yard dug up to replace busted clay sewer pipe that caused the s****er to overflow on me

    Speaking of s****er, are they the old high volume flush? The newest s****ers use a fraction of the water and flush nicely too

    If you intend to keep the wood fireplace, it's absolutely essential to have the chimney inspected. If there are cracks in the central clay pipe, you could cause a tragic house fire

    I personally prefer a gas direct-vent fireplace. If you want to keep the wood burner, consider an airtight conversion that uses outside air - a separate pipe supplies the outside air - for combustion.

    Regency Wood Insert - I2400 medium

    I wish you well with your home. But if anybody were to offer me an old home, free of charge, the first thing I'd do is rent a crane with one of those giant steel balls and knock it down

    Then I'd have a good stiff belt, rent a manlift, and start framing new walls ....
     
  4. hyo silver

    hyo silver Awaaaaay

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    Hey, I've learned my lesson with the first one. The next will be an ultra-efficient little cabin in the forest somewhere, far from the madding crowd. But I was trying to be somewhat encouraging, at least. ;)
     
  5. eagle33199

    eagle33199 Platinum Member

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    I'm in a similar situation, Danny... My house from 1974 is still mostly original in the energy-efficiency areas, and has most of the problems yours does. I bought it last summer, so i've gone through a winter with it.

    My first recommendation - window shades. As a house warming present, my mom made them for the windows in my most-used areas, and they were absolutely amazing last winter. She made them as Roman shades, generally following the guidelines found here:
    http://www.solar-components.com/quilts.htm

    She also incorporated small magnets into the edges, with a magnet strip going down the side of the window frame. It locks everything up nicely, and looks a little better than the plastic on the windows. As a bonus, the shades look great when drawn up during the summer.

    Unlike you, however, my window frames are in horrible shape - water damage, rotting on the outside, etc. Replacing all of them is ridiculously expensive, but doing a few of them at a time isn't bad - plus you can get the $1500 tax credit. I'm replacing 3 of my 14 windows this year (the three worst ones), will do a few more next year, and the year after, etc. until they're all finished. The company i'm going with is giving me a huge discount to be a "showcase home" since their showroom is on the other side of town. They want to highlight the fact that windows can be done in stages while still looking nice overall.

    Another great tip: If you don't use every room in the house every day (and most of us have at least 1 or 2 rooms we don't use too often), close up the vents in that room, close the door, and even stick a towel under it to help keep the draft down - that way, you don't end up heating that room very much during the winter.

    What else... Keeping your thermostat low can really help with the savings too. I don't go to these extremes anymore, but back in college i was in a house with some guy, and we kept the thermostat to 58 - at the end of the winter the gas company finally came out and read our meter, and gave us a refund of over $1500. Having a small portable heater can help with this, as you can selectively increase the temperature in whatever room you happen to be using at the time.
     
  6. acdii

    acdii Active Member

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    Some great tips up above that you can follow. My house is huge, 6000 SqFt, but long and low as it is a Ranch. In the attic. layer the insulation, the more the better, start from the top down, heat rises, cold sinks. Whatever insulation you currently have in the attic probably has settled down, so I would start by putting a layer of batts on that, then cross another layer of batts over them. A good 30" of insulation can go a LONG way to keeping the house cool/warm.

    Since the house was built in 73, chances that the walls are insulated are high, so there is not a lot you can do to improve on that except for one thing, depending on your external wall cover, if anything other than brick, you can remove it and put up 2" sheets of foam and then put it back on.

    For the Windows, if you are not ready to replace them, put some good storms on, preferably Vinyl with a reflective coating, but make sure there is a drain hole in the bottom, or else moisture will accumulate between the windows and cause rot. If you go that route, then later on you can replace just the sashes with dual or triple panes, without the added expense of pulling the casings, and having to re-trim everything. People tend to forget the trim on the inside needs to be replaced, especially if its painted or stained a certain way and can get very expensive if its hardwood.

    For your fireplace, the best way to have one work efficiently is to make sure it uses outside air for combustion, yet can give off heat to the living space. There are several ways to do this with existing fireplaces, first is with an insert as mentioned above, another way is with a log rack that surrounds the firebox bottom to top with a blower that forces inside air through pipes that get heated by the wood and blown out into the room. These are the least expensive and good looking alternatives since you can use the existing fireplace doors. Outside air can be retrofitted to just about any fireplace, all that is needed is a hole bored through into the firebox from outside and a grate put over it to prevent critters from coming in, and dampers can be installed both in the draft and chimney. The best way is if you can get it to come in underneath the firebox.

    As for the garage, you can replace the doors, or put an insulation blanket on the inside of it, or both, but if there is no insulation in the ceiling, pull the drywall and do it right, with the vapor barrier facing the floor, and not the garage, then cover it back up with 5/8" drywall.

    Get your ducts cleaned too, it will improve the efficiency of the furnace, and if possible install a 98% furnace that vents outside so it doesn't burn inside air, as this will draw air through any opening in the walls and cause drafts. The main goal is to keep the cold/hot air out and the conditioned air in, so any means that would consume air should get the air from outside.
     
  7. SSimon

    SSimon Active Member

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    You'll end up performing energy efficiency upgrades on your old house and you'll find you have a lot more to do the longer you live there and uncover deficiencies, unfortunately. Research which upgrades will yield tax credits and then you can prioritize based on this and return on investment.

    Make sure you have proper ventilation in your attic and that your soffits are free and clear (don't assume here) or you'll just have a future problem with your nice new insulation.

    Check for holes around any piping entering your house and caulk. Check with the hardware store for caulk that can withstand the ensuing expansion and contraction.

    Have someone check your air ducts to make sure there are no leaks and rotting areas. We're now encountering probable replacement of ours.

    If you have one of those really old aluminum sliding doors, you should check into replacing this as soon as you're able. Those things create a lot of condensation which can end up seeping under your floor and create rot.

    Make sure you caulk around the interior of your windows and doors, if needed. Our old house settled in with 1/4 inch gaps around our windows. Make sure you purchase the "paintable" kind or when upgrading your wall color, you won't be able to cover this area properly with the new paint.

    I'm all about window plastic. They save a lot of energy and cease condensation and mold issues. If using this method, however, you'll have to be ready for the paint to peel from your windows when removing it.....a small sacrifice in my mind but opinions may vary. You could always use this and then incrementally replace windows as you're able to afford, as Eagle suggested.

    And do check your chimney as the older chimneys weren't always constructed to dissuade critters from nesting in your nice abode. Last thing you need is a chimney fire, though Jay may think otherwise.
     
  8. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    I have no advice to offer. But congratulations on buying a house, and good luck, whatever you decide to do!
     
  9. Matt Herring

    Matt Herring New Member

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    I'd highly recommend you go to ecorenovator.org and check out some of the very cool and efficient projects taking place over there by forum members. It's an offshoot of ecomodder.com. The projects range from very large professional energy efficient jobs to do it yourself energy saving/eco friendly jobs. Whatever your budget and aspirations you will find the site very helpful. Best of luck with your new home!
     
  10. Stev0

    Stev0 Honorary Hong Kong Cavalier

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    1939? Mine's older.
     
  11. hyo silver

    hyo silver Awaaaaay

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    :)
    What year was yours built, Stev0?
     
  12. CMonster

    CMonster Member

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  13. Sandy

    Sandy Hippi Chick

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    I was blessed enought to buy a foreclosure that was built in 2007 and is a 4/2/2 2500 sF, was over 300K paid cash for it 87K, so I have to say LOVE living in a newer hom after living in a 1998 home, Congrats:)
     
  14. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    In rural North Dakota I lived in a house that was about a hundred years old. It was a great place to live, but not a particularly nice house. Still, for $20,000 I had a home of my own and four acres of land, 3/4 of a mile from my nearest neighbor.

    My present home was a dozen years old when I bought it, 3 1/2 years ago, and it is very nice to be in a house that never needs repairs. :D
     
  15. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    Of course, first Danny would have his family and pets a safe distance away, standing by with marshmellows, then he would start the roaring chimmney fire

    A potential caveat with older homes that you retrofit to make "air tight" - the appliances (Old gas furnace, old gas hot water heater, etc) worked fine in old drafty homes. Suddenly make that home air tight, and a tragedy is in the making

    My house has a sealed combustion direct vent (Two ABS pipes, one for combustion air, the other for exhaust, into a single exterior termination collar) Bryant Evolution furnace, but a regular gas hot water tank

    By code, there is a separate 6 inch insulated pipe just to supply outside combustion air to the gas hot water tank. I also have a Heat Recovery Ventilator that runs 24x7 to constantly bring in fresh outside air, filter it, and exhaust stale inside air

    If Radon is a concern where you live, see

    EPA Map of Radon Zones | Radon | US EPA

    then at the very least you want the HRV running 24x7. Severe indoor Radon levels will require a power vented basement slab

    Other caveats about old homes: is the wiring "knob and tube?" That's almost guaranteed to start a roaring fire
     
  16. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Charlotte doesn't look too bad on the coarse-scale EPA map. If the OP is going to 'zip up' the house and install heat-recovery ventilation (good ideas already suggested) then have the basement air and water checked for radon after. Then you'll know if more effort is indicated in that area.
     
  17. Stev0

    Stev0 Honorary Hong Kong Cavalier

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    1704. That is not a typo.
     
  18. hyo silver

    hyo silver Awaaaaay

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    Whoa. Got me beat.

    The outhouse must be a few hundred years old, too. I hope you have a large yard, or you'd run out of places to dig new holes. ;)
     
  19. judymcfarland

    judymcfarland Queen of Moral Indignation

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    Other items may be higher on your list, but do consider a programmable thermostat, preferably one with multiple per/day settings and separate weekend settings. You will never forget to change the settings at bedtime & winter AMs will be more pleasant to have the house warm when you crawl out from the covers. In our northern climates, one of these babies is a real energy (and brain) saving device - and not too expensive. Installation is probably a DIY for you handy guys out there, or have it installed when you have your yearly heating/cooling system inspections.
     
  20. JRitt

    JRitt Bio-Medical Equip. Tech

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    If you have blown insulation in the attic you can rake it out and have 1 inch of spray foam just above the cealing. This will seal the house from the attic and keep moisture out of the attic. Then blow your old insulation and add more to 10 inches. Add vents in the attic to achieve 1sqft of vent area for each 150sqft ft of attic floor area. Next I would replace the windows with a double pane, Vinyl, Low-E glass, Argon filled (U .33) windows. If you have Vinyl siding look at replacing it and putting a house wrapagainst the exterior wall and 1 inch of sheet foam over that the installing new vinyl siding. Get rid of the fireplace or get an insert that seals it from the house and pulls fresh air into it from the outside. Get a heat pump installed