Who killed the electric car part II Toyota

Hi Mitchellsprius,

I do not think that Toyota Motors Corp is killing the electric car. On the contrary i think that, since 14 years now, they try and tend to REACH the electric car. Hybrid cars will be more and more present in toyota's catalog plus, gas engines will be less and less usefull in toyota's hybrid cars until, one day, they'll desapear completely !

Hybrid technologie is a technologie of "passage" between gas powered vehicules and clean energys of the futur.

 

If trying to learn to build one is 'killing the electric car' then yes, Toyota is guilty as charged. I am unclear how you expected Toyota to make any car without first learning how to make it, but in your mind this seems to be so.

GM has 80 Volts they made in pre-production so they can make the production car better. You can't buy a Volt yet, so GM must be 'killing the electric car', too.

Any chance you could link the Youtube video so we could see what they REALLY said?

 

The one minute video doesn't say much besides what was send in the first post.

 

Is'nt the conclusion of this video a bit premature ?
I'm gonna be buying a "plug-in-pack" as soon as it's an availiable toy genuine part !

 

Omni-TaG,

I think you've raised an interesting point, a Toyota OEM after market
"plug-in-pack." :whoo:

In addition to a larger HV battery and probably heftier MG1, it would
of course include a HSD software/firmware update by the only folks
who know all the ins and outs of the Prius. No potentially dangerous,
warranty busting hacks or work-arounds, but fully integrated
operating algorithms and safety features. :thumb:

At present, Toyota is in the business of making money by building cars
and trucks. Would it be too much to ask or expect that they could also
be in the business of making money by making and installing PHEV
plug-in-packs? Or is it only dreaming? I'm not in a position to know.
And Toyota is understandably secretive about its business. :noidea:

But it would be interesting to speculate on what size or sizes of
batteries would be most likely, and...

It would also be interesting to ask which Generation, II or III, has the
potential for the most, or perhaps quickest profitability:
*There are far more Gen IIs on the road.
*On the other hand, for all we know, the Gen III may have some of
the software/firmware already resident in the New HSD.

 

Hi Rokeby,

You know something Rokeby ? The only thing i would need is a second HSD-Battery-pack (exacly like the one i already have) PLUS a "plug-in" apparatus attached to it, AND know what, i'm shure that these aftermarket parts are already on drawing tables at Toyota USA research & developpement center in California !!!

Let's just wait for it. One day it will be as simple as buying new floor mats ! :mod:

The only inconvenient is that that day i will lose, in the trunk, most of my black plastic sub-compartement that i find so practical and usefull.

You're right on that one : Effectively TMC is veeeeery secret about it's new products. Industrial spying maybe. You know with all these new technologies araising so fast recently, it is quite a game that is being played out there ! TMC is, for now and since 1996, the most important player.

Let's cheer we made the right car choice for now as well as for the futur ! Since i'm convince that all that IS upgradable.

 

Toyota sold over 1 million hybrid electric cars. Assuming 15,000 miles per year and 10% of those miles are using electric power, that would be:

1,000,000 * 1,500 ~= 1.5 Billion electric miles per year
​

Bob Wilson

 

i would think they would definitely need firmware/programming changes to tell the car to take advantage of the extra battery storage vs having it assume that the capacity was the same as before...maybe they would let the car go faster or accelerate faster with the electric motor before turning on the ICE or something like that to optimize the car.

 

The battery in the Gen3 would need to be about 40 times the useful capacity (40 x 0.5 kWh = 20 kWh) to make it have a reasonably useful PHEV range (perhaps 40 miles). Because of the extra weight, the range might be less. And, the battery might cost $10,000?

 

IMHO, I think the issue here is cost and protecting their technology. If they did sell the plug-in at this time, many could not afford it and many would just not pay that amount of money. I believe the leasing only restriction has much to do with Toyota not wanting another car company buying their PEV and learning their secrets this early in the game.

I have read many times that Toyota has lost big bucks on the Prius for years in order to keep the car affordable enough for the average person, which most likely accounts for the cheaper interior components (rattle and squeaks) we complain about.

 

I think there are some key questions that needed to be addressed about the EV-1 in the WKTEC movie, like ...

* About how much did it cost to produce an EV-1?

* What warranty could have been offered on the traction battery?

* How much would it have cost to replace a traction battery out of warranty?

* How much would GM have needed to sell an EV-1 for to make it viable?

* Could GM have made money on the EV-1?

----------------
I would really like to know how the Tesla Roadster owner's are getting along with their cars.

 

Don't convict Toyota quite yet. The this bit of good news ... sorta ... posted just a short while ago:

http://priuschat.com/forums/prius-h...-in-hybrid-electric-vehicle-release-date.html

What perturbs me, is Toyota's V.P. being so reluctant to see it happen. He justifies his reluctance by promulgating an old lie about Toyota's RAV4-EV ... rather than come clean. How can Toyota come clean? With TRUTH! The truth is that the only reason Toyota built the Prius in the 1st place, was because they feared GM would build one, and leave Toyota in the technological dust. Now ... here we are again ... manufacturers up the wazoo ... setting production dates for both EV's as WELL as PHEV's. Once again ... Toyota is in the uncomfortable place of having to out-build the competition.

 

* How much salvage money did GM gain by crushing the EV-1s?

They could have offered them for the same salvage price and let the new owners deal with maintenance and disposal.

Bob Wilson

 

The guy in the you tube video is stupid. Toyota is not the number 1 car company by luck or by accident. battery tech right now is moving at the speed of light. Right now there are many companies all racing to compete and win the X prize for the best car. The best battery chemistry and a low cost to produce it will be a very big factor in winning this coveted prize. At the current time lithium-ion is all the rage, but Toyota just finished a secret 3 year study of lithium-ion batteries and decided that it wasn't worth the money. It doesn't make good business sense to invest in mass production of a vehicle right away only to have a flood of competitors come up with something better in just 2 or 3 years from now. by the time GM comes out with the Volt in 2012 it might be cheaper to buy from some competitor who has leap frogged the industry with a barium titanate battery chemistry that is currently in development. early tests for this and other batteries using nanotechnology have given results 10 times better than lithium-ion and at a lower cost to make them. Which reduces the price of the vehicle. Toyota may never mass produce that car because the rapidly evolving technology may cause it to be a dinosaur by the time the lease time trial is over, not because Toyota is trying to kill the electric car. If GM makes millions of Volts that don't sell well because they want over 40 grand per car and the technology has been quickly surpassed by then. They can go back to washington and cry to congress for
another taxpayer bailout which Obama will give them because it's now government motors and it's to big to fail no matter how many times GM screws up. Toyota's motto is and will always be, not rushing to be first to market, but best to market. and there is something to be said about longevity of toyota vehicles. About 80% of thier vehicles made in the last 20 years are still on the road this was in a recent Toyota commercial. You will never hear that claim being made for any american cars.

 

I've wondered about some of the internal history around the EV-1. The sequence of events makes no logical sense. Is it possible that the powers-that-be at GM made decisions out of emotion? I have a hard time believing there isn't more to the story but in the footage I saw, people were looking pretty irritated.

Was it just a simple power struggle? Did the EV go down in flames due to an executive temper tantrum?

 

Ridiculous conclusion about "killing the electric car". The media is full of commercial agendas.

Toyota can't make enough Priuses to keep up with the demand. The public is way ahead of the media.

 

I would say it was a power struggle. The group that was for building the EV1 lost. The anti EV guys where frightened and reacted stupidly and we have all paid for their fear. Wagoner in my opinion was the problem and I am glad to see him gone.

 

But Bob,
100% of the energy comes from burning petrol in an internal combustion engine.
Electric (from the grid or renewable sources) miles = 0