Toyota to recall 3.8 million vehicles

[quote
As for going 90 Mph, even though unsafe, it not dangerous enough for you to cut off your engine power in the middle of the freeway.[/quote]

Are you kidding? What would you do? In this scenario the vehicle is already out of control (just like the tragic accident on the west coast), going at a rapidly increasing speed, and is whizzing by other vehicles at more than twice their velocity. This is a REAL EMERGENCY, and something has to be done - NOW.

So, as I said before, there are 3 choices. One of the choices must be taken IMMEDIATELY. There is no time to think it over, no time to calmly pull off the road. You have GOT to get it controlled, and quickly.

Also, think about the 3 choices. What if one of the choices doesn't work? Do you just give up, and die, or are you prepared to try one of the other 2 choices?

End of discussion.

 

I noticed the problem within days of purchase of my new Prius in 2007 and removed them. I don't understand the need to spend millions to do a recall.

 

I didn't say not to do anything. I "said" that I would change gear to "N."
That only takes me 1/2 sec to do.
As for Choice #3, "Engine POWER Off," (which takes 3 secs or additional 13 MPH) I will take as necessary. If "N" didn't work I lose about 1 sec for trying.

That's why it's a good idea to leave 2-3 second space cushion between cars for unforeseen problems like stuck accelerators.

 

I feel safer in my 2005 Prius since I like having the gear lever next to the steering wheel even though I don't like bumping into it. I don't "bump" into it as often as before.

 

...It's called liability.

 

Would be a good idea to set-up a booth for Emergency Refreshers at the your next Hybrid gathering.

 

Good idea I'll bring it up, thanks.

 

Yeah, everyone is a victim, nobody can be responsible for his own safety. We are all too stupid in the eyes of the legal system. This one is way too simple, but will keep lots of lawyers employed.

Sorry for my cynicism, but I have lived in times when I was responsible for my individual actions. Just tell me to remove the mats.

 

I haven't seen anyone mention the emergency brake... wouldn't that be another option, if pressing on the brakes doesn't do it?

 

The emergency brake is close to worthless. When you are on a road with no traffic, get up to 50 mph. Then take your foot off the accelerator pedal and step on the emergency brake as hard as you can. See how long it takes for the car to stop.

Now imagine that the engine is still accelerating, and you can see the emergency brake will not help you get out of that particular emergency.

 

An accelerator stuck on full throttle is something that happened to me once on a 5 cylinder VW Santana, back in the 1980s.

The carburetor had a cold start problem, which I reported to the dealer before a service. I don't know what they did, but the next weekend I took it on a German autobahn and had a very unpleasant incident where it got stuck at full throttle while I was doing over 160 kph.

The car accelerated even if I took my foot off the pedal and reached about 180 kph. I quickly pushed the brake pedal as hard as I could and at least it didn't accelerate any further and slowed down a little. Then I depressed the clutch pedal (the closest manual equivalent of putting it in N). The engine RPMs shot up to the max but were limited by the engine management. With the engine roaring idly at maybe 5800rpm, the car coasted on the straight road and the brakes could slow it down. Worried about the engine I then switched off the ignition, which did stop the engine but also disabled the brake servo and power steering. I quickly turned the ignition back on, but not far enough to engage the starter, just so the steering lock could not be activated by turning the steering wheel as it would with the ignition off. I finally brought the car to a complete stop on the hard shoulder, without brake servo assistance.

After opening the bonnet, I opened the carburetor with a screw driver from the emergency set in the back and found the butterfly valve stuck. After some prodding with my fingers, it went back to the proper position and I could resume my journey, with no further incident.

I can see that using the brake pedal, my first reaction in that situation, would not have been as effective in a 3.5 litre V6 Lexus as it was in my 2 litre VW, because the engine was far more powerful. Switching the car to Neutral, my second reaction, would have been quite effective in the Lexus though. My third reaction, switching off the engine, would have been quite impossible for the average driver in that loan car. Turning off an ignition key is one thing, but having to hold down the power button for three seconds rather than just pushing it once is anything but intuitive. Yes, mobile phones and computers can be shut down that way too, but most of us grew up with cars that behaved differently from today's computers. Actually, even when I started with computers they switched off as soon as you pushed the power button once.

If the driver missed his chance to shift the gear into N, he would likely run out of time in that car before hitting another vehicle in front, before he would have figured out how this is supposed to be done.

Most accidents occur due to a combination of errors. In this case it appears to have been the floor mat problem, combined with the driver missing the chance to respond effectively by shifting the gearbox to N.

Problems with stuck accelerators could have been ameliorated in the engine management by having the brake pedal override accelerator input. If for example the brake pressure was high enough for an emergency stop (the ABS has a sensor for that) then the fuel injection quantity could be limited to idling or at least significantly less than full acceleration would demand, effectively ignoring the accelerator, floor mat or no floor mat. The only side effect I can see is that it would make drag racer starts impossible, but who cares?


When I explained about the recent Toyota problem to my wife, she replied that she had tried to remove the mats from our 2008 Prius for cleaning but didn't manage to because the hooks held them in place too firmly. Even without the hooks I imagine the left foot rest would stop the mat from moving much. I feel quite safe in my Prius.

My previous car was an Audi A4 and there the mats provided by the dealer (it was a second hand car) did not fit the nipples meant to match up with holes in the mats. As a result, the mats kept sliding forward under heel pressure and sometimes got wedged under the pedals (luckily never over the pedals!). Both my wife and I wondered why the car suddenly had a hard time accelerating (it felt really sluggish), until I realized what had happened and pulled the thick mat back out from under the accelerator pedal.

 

Seems I've had this problem in the past with another car I owned. Floor mat creeping up and interfering with gas pedal. I resolved it quickly by pushing the mat down with the heel of my right foot. I may have also reached down and pulled it away with my left hand while keeping my eyes on the road. That may be possible. Some of my previous cars have had clips for the mats on the drivers' side, others haven't. I think the steepness of the well may be a factor in how easily a mat can creep up to the accelerator--which may be why some cars with shallow wells have clips. I wonder how well steepness varies from car to car. Something I never thought about before.

I have dealer-installed Prius mats, and haven't had any problems. I'm going to check tommorrow to see if they are clipped down.

 

Yep, I've gone an half block in several different cars before noticing the parking brake was still set.

 

So what is the "E-brake" mainly use for on the Prius since it's not so useful for Parking either?

 

>I have a 2001 Sienna as well as our 2007 Prius: BOTH have properly clipped mats which came with the car!


So where's the problem? Aftermarket mats? Why is that such a big recall?<

Because the clips sometimes come off. My mats will put my Toyota and they came twice before I just took out the drivers mat. I don't know how they allow the mat to slip but they were connected, I couldn't pull them off.

I guess there is more to the story here than just Toyota trying to protect from a few bad Toyota owners. It sounds more like engineering problem that really locks in those mats so they don't forward even if some pushes them again and again.

Steve

 

I haven't read through the entire thread but I get the gist of what everyone is saying. The recall is so overkill but I know why they had to do it. I once had my 2004 Prius washed at the car wash and the guys who take the mats out improperly put them back (without hooking them). What happened was that the mat did indeed interfere with the accelerator but I knew what the issue was and I was able to remedy the problem. How on earth someone crashed a Lexus at 120mph is beyond my comprehension. Aren't brakes designed to overcome the car's acceleration? I think that in the future a software revision can be made so that a car's acceleration can be reduced/turned off merely by braking hard. Make sense?? Is there something I'm missing?

 

You're the 2nd person who has this innovative idea of an accelerator with brake bypass.
Not until recently that the Auto manufacturers were finally pushing for more safety technology. Hopefully, this feature winds up on the all the 2011 Toyota models.

 

Another Article on Stuck Accelerator Pedal

I hope I'm doing this right, I couldn't find a 'link' to the story but here it is:

Local family's tragedy leads to Toyota recall
By Rachel Raskin-Zrihen
Posted: 10/02/2009 01:00:54 AM PDT

Millions of Toyota drivers are being advised to remove their driver's-side floor mats in response to a fiery crash involving a Vallejo family.

The world's largest automaker is expected to start contacting its customers directly this week in a voluntary recall that reportedly will be the largest in the firm's history, affecting 3.8 million Toyota and Lexus vehicles.

The Aug. 28 crash in Santee, near San Diego, which investigators suspect was caused by a stuck accelerator pedal, killed former Vallejo resident Chris Lastrella, 38, his sister Cleofe, 45, her husband, 45-year-old Mark Saylor, and their 13-year-old daughter, Mahala.

The crash prompted Toyota to "take a closer look at the potential for an accelerator pedal to get stuck in the full open position due to an unsecured or incompatible driver's floor mat," according to Toyota's Web site. "A stuck open accelerator pedal may result in very high vehicle speeds and make it difficult to stop the vehicle, which could cause a crash, serious injury or death."

A St. Patrick- St. Vincent High School alumnus, Chris Lastrella had been in Southern California for only a few months, pursuing a commercial voice-over career, when he died, said his younger brother, Vallejo High School head wrestling coach Carl Lastrella.

Carl Lastrella, who is expecting his second child any day, said his family has no comment on the recall at this time. They are busy dealing with a devastating loss, he said.

"We're taking it

day by day," he said. "It's difficult, but we have to go on living."

The Saylor family and Chris Lastrella were in a loaner Lexus that was hurtling out of control at more than 100 mph when it clipped a Ford Explorer, smashed through a fence, hit an embankment and burst into flames, according to news reports. The Explorer's driver was hospitalized with moderate injuries.

Other reports quote a San Diego California Highway Patrol officer as saying a cell phone call to 911 from a passenger in the car indicated the accelerator pedal was stuck and Saylor, the driver, who would have served 20 years with the CHP this month, was unable to free it. Saylor was a CHP safety officer.

About two weeks after the crash, Toyota ordered dealers to inspect floor mats in their vehicles because a wrong-sized mat was suspected of contributing to the tragedy, according to reports. The National Transportation Safety Board, which issued an advisory on the matter Tuesday, announced that besides loose floor mats pushing up against the accelerator pedal, another factor might be the keyless ignition in some models, possibly making it more difficult to turn off the engine.

Until Toyota finds a solution to the problem, it asks owners of specific Toyota and Lexus models to take out any removable driver's-side floor mats and not replace them.

National Highway Traffic Safety Administration spokeswoman Karen Aldena said Toyota is launching a recall and will notify her agency and its customers of the problem and its solution.

"We sent investigators to the crash in Southern California and determined the accident was caused by a defect with the vehicle having to do with the accelerator pedal becoming stuck," Aldena said. "Toyota acknowledged this also, by issuing the recall."

Aldena said the mat issue is not new, noting her agency and Toyota have been monitoring it for several years, and even issued a recall of floor mats in two models in 2007.

Aldena said agency officials advise owners of the impacted vehicle models to make sure there are no obstructions near the gas pedal.

"Remove any unsecured or stacked floor mats by the pedals," she said.

 

It's function is to satisfy state laws and DOT requirements that cars be equipped with a mechanically operated parking/emergency brake. The only ones that are of any value for other than parking are the European style ones that have a pull up leaver by the driver's seat.

The only time I use mine is when I park on a steep hill. I do that because I'm an old guy and I remember when cars could get jammed in park if you didn't set the parking brake before you put the transmission in park. I don't know if that could happen to a Prius or not.