... Ultracapacitor Hybrid MRAPs ~

If they can't describe what regenerative braking really means,
that puts kind of a credibility ding in the rest of it...
.
_H*

 

I can't reveal my source.. but he was very high up in Toyota and he eluded that although the plugin would soon be in the picture, that what is not yet released is already old news... within 5 years or so, the Prius will be accessing something akin to fuel cells... He couldn't and wouldn't elaborate more.
He didn't say how long it would be before it hit the market but it was still hush hush

 

They're probably intentionally being very vague with the description of their technology since it has direct military application.

 

I suspect they are being vague because the description was written by marketing flaks.

Do you recall the Dilbert cartoon, where Dilbert, as the engineer, was traveling with a salesman to make a call. The salesman explained that this was their most important customer, which was why he asked Dilbert to come along. The salesman said that he wanting to use the travel time to learn everything he could about their product so that he would be ready for the sales call. Dilbert said "Our product is beige. It runs on electricity", to which the salesman said "Whoa! Brain overload!"

Tom

 

The Oshkosh ultracapacitor system is called ProPulse

Oshkosh Corporation - Technology and Innovation - ProPulse

and has been in development for several years. The primary motivation for Oshkosh to develop this military application wasn't for fuel savings or emissions reduction, but for logistics

The ProPulse can function as a stationary power source, so near battlefield operations will not need dedicated generator sets. This is a good way to maximize the use of a piece of equipment like the HEMTT A3 which will not be in use 24x7 anyway

Oshkosh has had some very innovative developments, like their Tak-4 independent suspension

 

The sad part is that this is true all throughout society. As soon as you start talking technical with someone who majored in business, they have no idea how even the simplest things work. If a catastrophic event wiped out 95% of society tomorrow, these guys would be as good as dead.

 

Nice. I bet it'll be too expensive for the Army though. I would love it if my branch could be considered the cleanest but it's probably not gonna happen any time really soon.

 

I've been thinking the same thing. Batteries have a very high weight to energy-stored ratio compared to, say gasoline, for example. If we can develop a way to plug a car into an electric outlet, and convert the electricity to covalent chemical energy (covalent bonds instead of ionic bonds), we could store significantly more energy per unit weight and we wouldn't have to worry so much about whether we have enough lithium and nickel resources to build hundreds of millions of large car batteries.

I don't think it is ever going to happen. The human body (and animals) are programmed to compromise their future resources during extreme events. For example, if you are starving and saving every ounce of energy you possible can, and then you see a tiger, your pre-programmed biochemistry shoots adrenaline into your blood, releasing all energy sources (you have no control over that), and whether you run like hell or hide, your body is in overdrive, heart pounding, breathing elevated, and brain "guzzling" energy. If you have to breathe in dust and carcinogens in order to escape the tiger, you are going to do it. If you are setting the world's hypermiling record and you see a semi-truck barreling toward you at 90mph, you are going to stomp on the accelerator. The Armed Forces are about battle. They prepare for IMMINENT danger. They only have one goal: Win the battle at ALL costs. MPG does not matter to them. I don't see the Armed Forces ever going green. Ever. The civilian governments? yes. But not Defense. If YOU were headed into battle right now, would you want to be driving an armored diesel Hummer, or a hybrid Toyota iQ? (extremes to make the point) An old adage about battle says "Prepare for the worst, and expect the worst." If you lose the battle, the future isn't going to matter.

 

That's a pretty good observation Rybold, because we are immune to a lot of the restrictions civilians are subject to but not all the time. For instance we're using less than half the paper we once used, housing areas have watering restrictions just like off post/base neighborhoods and at Fort Leonard Wood we have B20, biodiesel and E85 nontactical vehicles.

I know some people will scoff at the E85 and trust me, I understand the arguements about E85 and I don't advocate it but the B20 biodiesel is a good idea in my opinion because of all the different ways of making biodiesel through transesterification.

The point of me saying this is that there is a chance the military will get greener over time. It's just not likely to ever be a priority because we have enough problems with equipment and such as it is.

 

So would we. Street thugs and gang types would be best prepared. Also anyone living on an Indian reservation that has not built a casino.

 

Thank God ... there IS a silver lining to this thought of marketing before product

Sadly, true ... less the 5% of us try to 'prepare' for disaster / emergency. A few years ago, for example ... Corporate Disney REFUSED to let us man the EOC just prior to Y2K because they feared we would steal some of the equipment. Sadly, at that time, over 50% of the EOC equipment was OUR equipment ... we had installed our own equipment because Disney refused to buy anything necessary to properly run an EOC. (except multi million dollar efficiency consultants, that have made the business LESS efficient for the past 11 years)


.

 

You actually bring up a good point there. If we assume that one day we will run out of oil, then the military needs to begin preparing for the future; biodiesel for example. If biodiesel can deliver the same mount of energy as petrol diesel (can it?), then I don't see any drawback. Also, if it is a job that is not directly involved in battle, such as a training officer driving around a domestic base, I suppose a PHEV Prius would even suffice.
You came back with an excellent point and an excellent example.

(I think the reason you are using less paper though is not because of the environment but because electronic communications are more efficient and superior to old-fashioned paper communications. It allows our troops to communicate with each other more effectively)

 

Hi Blue...,

Well, there has been allot of Pentagon noise made about the cost of "in-theatre" fuels, both in money and personel. I think I heard something like $100/gallong or more someplace. Remember, its just not the cost of the fuel, but getting it where its needed. So, yea, they will buy hybrid military transports.

 

Hi Rybold,

Biodiesel does not have the cold-weather performance of Petroleum or Fisher-Troph diesel. And with the the Army wanting to be an all JP-4, or similar organisation, I think Fisher-Troph will be there pick.

 

Street thugs: Yes and no. Just like the tortoise and the hair, the street thugs will dominate those who cross their paths ... until the street thugs run out of clean water and food (which may take a few months, but eventually they will run out of bottled water and granola bars - other foods will become rotten or at least not provide a balanced meal. You can't live off of just potato chips; you will be deficient in vital vitamins. You need vegetables, and ideally meat).
Indians and primitive/poverty societies: Indians will continue to live as they did a thousand years ago. Those living in poverty-stricken countries are likely much more independent than we are. They might only have live spans of 30-40 years, but they will know how to survive a lot better than most in developed countries.
Engineers and Scientists: Those that have studied survival in this type of situation might be sufficient on their own (If you have the knowledge on how to make a homemade water purifier from supplies you can find sitting around your house or at a grocery store, then you are half-way there). While thugs are grabbing bottled water, scientists are grabbing bags of charcoal (to purify water; home water purifiers simply use crushed charcoal; otherwise known as norite. If you are using rain water, 50grams could last a family a whole month before being changed out. If you are using stream or river water, it would last you about 1-3 weeks depending on how clean the water is).

I think for the most part, "thugs" exist in major urban areas, and once you are out of a major city, you don't have to deal with thugs as much. If you think about it, I think you will conclude that most people in our society would rather team up with others rather than being hostile. (consider how people worked together after 911. In New Orleans, at the Super Dome, people didn't attack each other. It was in the "ghost town" of urban areas that violence occurred) The vast majority of all construction workers, general contractors, and truck drivers (with CB radios) that I have known in my life would be much more likely to want to work together with others productively rather than being hostile. Especially, if there are kids around.
Farmers in the Great Plains could organize and each grow a different crop and exchange. Water will continue to flow from the mountains every year. (no inner city thugs present)

Those who live near the ocean and distant from any "thug" areas (like me ) will simply join the rest of our peacefully community and catch fish and have a communal fire to cook the fish. I specifically chose the city I live in because it is distant from innercity "thug" areas and safe, and the people here are friendly. (that is what I looked for in a city).

 

Even a minor fuel savings is worth the logistics reduction. As the ProPulse can also function as a stationary generator, it makes sense to have such a vehicle

Actually, that would be JP-8, which is used on Army aircraft, all diesel powered trucks, generators, stoves, etc. The Navy has different requirements, primarily a much higher flashpoint for safety aboard vessels, and has the JP-5 specification

JP-8 may not be suitable for modern common rail electronically fuel injected diesel motors. It has anti-gel properties that have matched most of the obsolete DFA (Diesel Fuel, Arctic) specification. DFA must have a gel point of -60 F or better, JP-8 is -53 F

On the topic of survival, no man is an islad. I also prefer to team up with like-minded individuals

 

This system also provides the tactical advantage of being able to move short distances very quietly. It can't go far like that, but even a little bit can help.

Tom

 

Street thugs take it.. beggars ask for it.. both are weak and dependent upon the hard work, coordination, and civilization of others. One takes the refuse, while the other steals the spoils.. One is proud, while the other is humble..... but none can survive on their own because they are parasites in the sense that they cannot obtain sustainance of their own resources.

We all interdepend upon each other in one form or another.. but hopefully we give back more of what we take....... otherwise.. there would be no excess for the politicians to steal!..

Regardless, the only salvation for energy whether we create the perfect battery or storage system is for the common man to be able to access his own power from free resources such as the sun, wind, and any other forms that dont have to be transported, packaged, processed or manufactured.

As long as the "Form of energy" has to be handled before we can use it, there will always be someone making a profit and capitalizing upon supply and demand.. in other words.. it will never be free.

But we have to be patient.... here a little, then there a little..is the way we evolve as a race. Hopefully we don't all kill each other before that happens!

 

Where do you think the bio diesel comes from


Petrochemical fertilizers ... petrochemical pesticides ... petrochemical driven machinery to farm it ... petrochemicals burning to make the electricity for all those processes ... petrochemicals to ferment the grain(s) / plant(s) into fuel, etc. The bottom line ... It aint free ... you need the 'stuff' to make the 'stuff'.