DICE iPod integration in G1 - results!

Maybe I haven't been the only person wondering whether the DICE i-Toyota-R iPod interface will work in a G1. DICE doesn't claim that it works, but in that thread, vagabond said it ought to and just hadn't been tried. So I picked one up and tried it out this weekend. There's good news and bad news.

The good news: the stock audio system will recognize the DICE unit in either its CD-changer or Mini-Disc-changer emulation modes. (I didn't try the SAT or MP3 mode). Text is not available in the CD mode, but in MD mode it is. You can see title/artist/album/playlist info from the iPod and do the documented Silverline browsing stuff. You can switch between IPOD and AUX input by selecting "disc 5", and selecting "disc 6" (this isn't in the manual) gives you a DICE firmware version display and seems to enter a mode where you can make baseline volume and tone adjustments. That was nice because I wound up boosting the baseline volume from 68 to 75 to make the iPod seem to play at the same volume as the radio when switching between them. It sounds great.

The DICE-supplied harness that attaches to the DICE unit comes out of the box with the proper connectors to mate with the G1 radio. The extra adapter harness that also comes in the box is actually the one you need to add for use in the newer radios! The connector it fits on the radio is on the far right and easily reached after flipping down the glove box - you don't even need to touch any instrument panel trim. There is plenty of room above and right of the radio to mount the box. 5 minutes to do.

The supplied harness carries only the AVC-LAN wire pair between the radio and the original car harness. The G1 Prius uses 4 more wires there: backup power, acc power, and ground to the switch cluster (pins 5, 12, and 8, respectively) and a hard-wired eject (pin 11). That can be solved either by adding a Toyota Y harness from the dealer to the DICE-supplied harness (and letting the 2-wire DICE male connector dangle unused), or modding the DICE harness (the necessary 4 more male pins can be cannibalized from the newer-car adapter harness that you don't need).

The bad news: operation and response to control inputs are really erratic. Button presses sometimes get lost and you have to repeat them, and sometimes it seems you get stuck somewhere (e.g., press "disc 2" and the highlight moves to 2, then moves itself back to 1 a second or so later), but you can keep trying and eventually it works. Displayed text will sometimes disappear for several seconds or longer, or be replaced with "NO TITLE", and then eventually come back. Sometimes when you switch away to AM or FM, you can't switch back (the DISC button just does nothing), but if you keep pressing buttons for a while (AM - FM - DISC - AM - FM - DISC) eventually you get it back. (When you do, it comes right back at the place you left it in the song that was playing when you switched away.)

Occasionally the entire unit just goes AWOL (the DISC button goes back to saying "The external system is not connected") and then there's no getting it back until you cycle power at the key.

It also causes erratic operation of other things: it can cause the MFD's service check mode to show the Gateway ECU as being unreachable (uh-oh...) and to log numerous codes in LAN check (which I didn't write down before clearing them, sorry). While driving, the current MPG bar and energy display are delayed/erratic/wacky. So I've de-installed the DICE for now.

This all seems consistent with the idea that the DICE unit basically supports all the right command set to work with the stock G1 radio and MFD, but the AVC-LAN communications are going all flaky. That's how the button-press control inputs get to the DICE, how the playing status and text get to the MFD, and also how the MFD gets energy and MPG data to display. Noise or a lot of collisions causing dropped packets or retransmission delays would account for all the observed weirdness.

That leads to a few possible diagnoses that at the moment I have no way to choose between. (To be written up later....)

-Chap

 

The insanely-technical part of this story continues here.

It seems that most of the problems I reported above have been reported by users in 2004+ cars also, making them probably not G1-specific.

The DICE unit that I tested has the following firmware revisions (reported under "disc 6" in MD mode):

CORE 1.400E

CAR 1.7218

IPOD 1.1003

AUX 1.04

-Chap

 

Re: DICE iPod integration in G1 - SUCCESS!

Sometimes a bug does turn out to be simple. All it took was to snip one wire and the thing works just like it's supposed to - none of the glitches that I (and others) earlier reported.

Sounds nice, too.

So to make the DICE work in a G1 requires these mods to the harness that comes with it:

1. Add four more wires as described above, between the male and female connectors at the CAR end (or just obtain a Toyota Y harness to use on that end and leave the 2-pin harness connector unused). These wires are needed to power the cluster switches and clock, and make the tape player eject.

2. Cut and insulate the green wire at the DICE end of the harness.

Cutting that wire may do the trick for people reporting DICE flakiness in G2s also (I haven't checked).

With the switches set in minidisc-changer mode, the DICE displays titles and has all the browsing features shown in the manual. The one mode I haven't been able to get back into though is the baseline volume/tone setting. I originally thought disc-6 was what got me there, but it must have been some accidental series of commands I sent while the LAN was flaky. Now that I'm not getting comm errors, I'm not sure how to get back there. hwell:

-Chap

 

Yes, I just ordered it from the PriusChat Shop, and I put 2004 in the year-select box because I had to put something, but I don't know if it even matters much.

It came with the "vehicle-specific harness" (the one shown below that has a black connector for the DICE unit itself, and two large 12-position connectors that are the right fit for the G1 radio), and with the Y harness shown below (with one large 12-position connector to mate with the first harness, and two smaller white connectors that are the right fit for newer cars).

You don't need this Y harness in a G1. But you can cannibalize it for 4 wires and pins to make the mods to the vehicle-specific harness, which you do need. Or you could go to Toyota and buy another Y harness with the larger 12-position plugs and use that. I don't know about part number, ordering, or price for the larger-style Y harness from Toyota, because for me splicing 4 wires is as fast as shopping for a part. But if you're not comfortable splicing your DICE harness (and making it unreturnable), then you would want to buy the factory Y harness.

On the other hand, if you'll have to cut the green wire at the DICE connector, it'll be unreturnable anyway.

I registered on DICE's site and opened a support ticket with the original issue, with links to these threads on PC. I also updated the ticket when I found the fix. They have never responded either to my original inquiry or the update, and from what I had read about them on PC already that didn't surprise me. But we can safely conclude that if they read their support tickets at all, they do know about the problem and the fix.

That might not mean they'll start shipping different harnesses. They probably have the things built in scary quantities to get a decent price, and reworking them is probably prohibitive. As for the 4 extra wires needed for a G1, well, the likely reason they didn't target or test on G1 to start with is that there were too few G1s ever sold to be a compelling market. As you can solve that problem by buying a stock Y harness, they probably won't be interested in that mod to support G1.

As for clipping that green wire at the DICE connector, that seems to me like it might be the cause of reported problems in their intended application for G2s as well. (It would be great if somebody who has reported DICE flakiness on a G2 could cut that wire and see if it cures the problem.) Now that might be a fix they would consider making (or at least putting an extra tech note on their website, "if you have these symptoms, cut this wire"). But no big deal if they don't since it is so easy to do.

To mod the vehicle-specific harness and avoid buying a separate Y, take apart the small Y cable that came with the unit. Unwrap the black tape from the wires, and extract 4 of the pins from the big 12-position connector. (Use a jeweler's screwdriver or small pointy tool from the connector front to push down the little white locking tab at each pin, while sliding the pin out the back.) I took the ones attached to the green, red, black, and yellow wires because that allowed me to keep the color code consistent. That should work for you IF they keep the same color code for your unit; if not, pick whatever colors make sense, as long as the pin numbers are right.

Each pin you extract is attached to 2 wires. You only need 1 each, so cut 1 of the wires at the near end, but cut the other one at the far end.

Push these pins from the back into the male connector of the vehicle-specific harness (the connector that only has 2 wires to it). On mine they go yellow to pin 5, black to 8, green to 11, and red to 12.

Join the free ends of those wires to the corresponding pins at the female 12-position connector. Easiest and most secure is probably to strip a little insulation from the end of each loose wire, and from each corresponding wire just behind where the pin is crimped on, twist, and solder. For easier access you can take these pins out of the female connector, do the splicing and pop them back in at the right positions. I find a little dab of Plasti-Dip (sold in hardware stores for coating tool handles, of all things) over a splice like that is a tidy way of insulating and protecting it.

The result should look like the third pic below. I reused some of the black tape that came off the cannibalized Y cable. You might also spot the blue felt-tip mark I made on the connector shells at pin 1, which helped me put the right pins back in the right spots.

Then don't forget to clip the green wire right at the black, DICE-unit connector, where it joins the blue one. (Don't cut the blue!)

Needless to say, DICE won't guarantee your mods, and I can't either (other than to say "it works for me") but good luck and I hope you enjoy it!

-Chap

 

The DICE unit I bought some years ago came with one that went the other way (one of the large connectors Y-ed to two of the newer smaller ones). I didn't need it, but I cannibalized a few pins out of it, so it's not quite in mint condition, and it's probably the opposite of what you need anyway. If you don't find one preassembled, the part numbers of the connector shells are in the back of the wiring diagram manual. (The part numbers of the terminals that go in the shells, IIRC, are not in the manual, but at your Toyota parts window they have a way to look them up. The only way they'll sell terminals to a 'mere' customer is pre-crimped to a short length of the wrong color of wire, but there's an independent auto electrical shop near me where he has the terminals bare, and says the dealer--same dealer--sells them to him.)

-Chap