I am not a "green" person

I bought my G3 based solely on a thorough investigative study of my alternatives. My 2001 was beginning to show serious wear; it was beginning to cost me in repairs; and I firmly believe that gasoline will indeed go up in price. (I know it will if congress enacts "cap and trade." ) My research revealed the Prius was the right size for my wife and I; large enough to take another couple for shorter jaunts; comfortably on longer trips with sufficient space for luggage; economically feasable to take longer trips; Consumer Report gave the Prius a "better than average" score for quality, fit and finish and maintenance. I have owned Toyota's for years and have had nothing but great experiences. I feel I made a great decision, and with 4000 miles on my IV ..... I am confident I made a great purchase. And, I am grateful that it is a ultra, low-emission vehicle.

Personally, I am growing weary of thinking of everything in terms of "green." I would never knowlingly do anything to harm the planet, but there must be balance. I fear there are those that would destroy our economy and our way of life, in search of a notion that we (alone) can "save the planet." I am absolutely convinced that without China and India's participation, our best efforts will not make any difference ... globally. "Carbon footprint" is used excessively by the environmental crowd, and I have heard just about enough!

Common sense is non-existant with that bunch. The government has issued a decree her in Utah that by 2011 we must solve the air inversions problem caused by cattles digestive system. While not enacted (yet), there is a report that the government has discussed regulations that would require farmers to contain dust within their own boundaries. These issues make me question whether government buracrats are that stupid ... or is their real intent to discredit, and destroy the greatest country on the planet.

Well enough ... just wait and read the response from those that will discredit what we, that love America, know to be true.

 

As sad/surprising as this may seem, economists/actuarys can put actual monetary value on this too... An average human life contributes to the GDP and therefore as a value.

In fact, in the occidental world (less the USA where there is no true public health system), though decisions are currently coming up. How much money can the society afford to put on one human life, being medication, operations, new technology to help/prolong life, etc.

I'm not a utopist but I simply want to say that there are real people (economist/actuary) try to put value on things that naturally seem hard to evaluate.

I do think that a global CO2 exchange would bring the emisions costs back into the product cost and then the market economy as we know it could be part of the solution instead of being the problem.

 

...you must be talking about... Sweden, right?!

See this interesting page on different country rankings. The greatest countries seem to be Scandinavian. But hey! the USA do come first on Computer Piracy Level!

I do understand that anybody tend to be chauvinistic about how good his country is but real world data sadly doesn't support your vision.

If you have time to kill, you may want to spend it playing with GapMinder, a truly excellent website that visually display all the freely available world statistics. For example, you'll see that USA comes:

• Health. Around #40 for life expectancy (the same as Cuba) although it is #1 for health expenditure per capita, far in front of every other country (about 2.5 times more than the average Western World country; this is actually quite funny for anybody outside the US as you are debating whether or not you can afford a public health system :huh: while the real question is: how can you afford such an inefficient system as the current one?)

• Poverty/inequality. Around #70 for income share held by top 20% of population (poverty/inequality indicator) and around #40 for its inequality index (about the same situation as in Iran)

• Education. Around #10 for math achievement in 8th grade

(Note that some statistics are not available for the USA as information is not always freely available for that country.)

There is still hope, though: USA does come #5 for its productivity (GPD per working hour) and you are right that USA is still the greatest economy, though I don't know for how long by the way it crashed its own economy (and part of the world's too).

Anyhow, I guess the Western world will have to relinquish the leadership back to China (as it was just a few centuries ago).

 

Many of us have become frugal due to this recession - either because we lost our job or fearful it might happen to us. When you wonder about termination it changes priorities.

Ben Franklin's "A penny saved is a penny earned" is getting traction again. It's a good thing that people are considering living below instead of beyond their means when jobs typically last 4-5 years and it takes 6-12 months to find the next one.

 

My considered recommendation is that you choose a subject for your thread that more closely matches the focus you wish your thread to have. That you are not green has NOTHING to do with your motivation to purchase the car - so you can see why it is expecting a lot for members to stay on topic when the subject of the thread is not on topic.

 

darelldd,

My tact of focusing on energy independence for economic and national security reasons is sincere, but also to find common ground between the T Boone Pickens and the Al Gores. Generally, the result is being greener, although I can think of the thorny issue of clean coal.

For me, I personally believe AGW is occurring

 

I feel the same way but go way beyond, believing that the recent rise in the stock market is merely a bear market rally and the real potential of the S&P 500 is 400-500. I predict a double dip recession or even recession/depression. The increase in the national debt this year leaves me breathless. I'm retired and the kids are educated and gone so I've sold my homes in FL and WI and am now renting in both places. Total living expenses have been cut by about 50% and I still enjoy golf and fishing year round. Why a Prius? It isn't the cost of gas, it's the potential for rationing in the future, that is if rationing isn't portioned by the gas mileage of your present vehicle which is a distinct possibility given the ideals of the present administration. In any case, I'll have a place to live and a nice car to drive. When the economy truly turns around I'll be back into real estate investments but I suspect I'll always drive a hybrid.

Buzz

 

We are all "green" in sense, no rational person wants to spew dollar bills out the exhaust pipe. When you double your efficiency, you cut your cost by one-half (or double your profit). A Prius offers decreased maintenance, lower fuel use costs, lower emissions, better aerodynamics, quiet - in general, a longer, more efficient life for the effort. What rational person intentionally wants to increase their cost, have more maintenance, higher fuel costs, higher emissions (annual smog check), more noise & vibrations?!

Toyota engineers put a lot of thought into every component in the Prius. The turn signal also controls turn signal lights, high & low beams and cruise control. The rear view mirror is adapted to all diel conditions & automatically adjusts to light levels. Electronics are largely controlled from the steering wheel. Many actions while driving are largely intuitive & the Prius accommodates our fickleness easily. Being "green" is about efficiency and making it easy to do good.

Prius is an intermediate, not a final step. As we get further into "Peak Everything" we will all see a shift to plug-in hybrids, then pure electric (based on photovoltaic recharging), then light rail within cities and high speed rail for long distance (note I did not include inefficient air planes). By necessity there must be less emphasis on individual vehicles (air quality, population dynamics, resource scarcity, cost, time, surface space, noise, etc.).

 

The other nice thing about a Prius is you could upgrade it to a PHEV so in theory it would last decades in mostly EV mode.

This recession is so bad because collectively we maxed our credit and it will take longer to recover - if we are smart enough to do so.

 

We bought the Prius for two reasons:
1) We wanted a commuter car - low cost maint and high mileage
2) A car that we could all fit in - the shortest is 5'10" tallest 6'6"

We ride bikes (so we can eat more cheesecake) and recycle (that is the norm in Boulder)

Our other car is an Isuzu Trooper 4X4

Oh, I traded in a 92 Trooper (200K) for the Prius - Cash for Clunkers

 

Hi Hawkmoon7,

Are you still in High School, and have to indicate which Clique you asociate with? Or did you flunk citizenship class lessons regarding modern adverstizing strategies and tactitcs? You might want to review this link: Fear, uncertainty and doubt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

Cool looking Prius V, great MPG, awesome technology. Enough said !!

 

Understood! I wasn't directing any comment at you - just wanted to make a point about the cost of health and lives that so many people neglect to consider.

Was just pointing out that the result of a subject line like that which you have used should not come as a surprise... and expecting everybody else to stay on topic is a bit of a stretch.

The word "green" is such an over-used and mis-used concept that I don't think anybody knows what it means to anybody else. You're far more green than your OP suggests. Might even be more green than the average American, depending on how you define it. So really, I think the subject of the thread not only invites off-topic discussion, but it also swings wide of the reality mark. But if it is controversy that you seek, then your subject line is ideal.

 

I am amazed and pleased that so many people in here seem to have similar motivations to buy the Prius as I do.

I hope this 'wall' between a green label and people who just appreciate good value will diminish as time goes by. Personally, I anticipate getting a lot of questions at gas stations and in parking lots about how "the Gen III produces less of this byproduct than a (fill in the blank)," which I will try to reply to kindly. Of course, the really adamant tree huggers (those that LIKE that label) may be shocked that neither my politics or motivation are close to theirs; but we WILL coexist!

My really fun times are going to be when I drive it to work; I work at a research center with PHDs and engineers running around everywhere. I expect them to light up like a Christmas tree when they see it in the parking lot.

So, good times lie ahead when it comes to meeting new friends because of my car. GREAT times are ahead when the price of gas goes through the roof again....

Joe

 

It was a good run Wayne.

 

I bought it simply for a educational purpose to my kid to save energy and reduce the carbon print. I want to be honest that it is not for the green purpose out of my mind. I am more interested in the technologies of hybrid.

 

This thread has started me thinking about my "footprint," so I'm making some changes. I've reviewed what I can recycle, and am amazed that 90% or more of the waste I generate is recyclable. Two recycle bins fill up in a week's time, and my trash can is largely empty.

I'll start mowing and mulching, rather than using the grass catcher and creating yard waste for the landfill. I'm on the fence about fertilizing and watering. I'd already stopped watering my backyard, but had continued watering my small 8 by 10 front yard (I live in a townhouse). I think I'll also stop fertilizing the back yard and see how that goes, but keep a minimal maintenance routine going for the front yard.