Nissan EV is about to be officially announced!

I am 100% sure that we will see coal-fired electricity production go down, for one because we'll run out and two, because solar and wind power are on the rise at an astonishing rate.

Granted, I know that currently all of the aternative fuels in the world don't even look like an inch compared to the miles that represent fossil fuels BUT when it comes to alternatives the last thing we need is more naysayers.

 

Well wind production is growing quickly, solar maybe as a percentage but its so small currently solar growth is not a factor in overall electricity usage.

We are not even close to running out of coal. We will be digging up coal (and polluting the air) well after we are out of oil.

Even this pessimistic article talks about a plateau (not a peak!) in 2025. Others state hundreds of years of supply remaining with the truth being somewhere in between.

Coal Supply May Be Vastly Overestimated: Discovery News

Coal powered electric cars are still nearly as clean (as measured at the coal plant smokestack) as the cleanest cars on the road.

 

Lets just say wind and solar DO become a factor in electric usage, to the degree that demand for coal lessens, what then? Could there be a ripple effect? Or is it completely impossible to do?

 

Great job Nissan!!!!

 

I don't think I am, but I sometimes like to play the devils advocate. I think it is still true that many think that an electric car automatically means it is zero emission; as if electricity grows in trees (not yet at least!).

As some have pointed out, you have to check how your electricity is produced to know whether it is or not a good idea to invest into an electric car.

I also like to believe that things are changing. I will follow closely developments in carbon nanotube capacitor batteries (resolving the 100 years old problem with battery autonomy) and efficient solar panels (free cost-efficient renewable energy). For the latter, two recent developments are promising: a newly researched surface that can take any angle incoming light and focus it on the solar panel itself and research on solar panels that can be many times as efficient as what is currently available (getting us from something around 12% (?) efficiency to something close to photosynthesis efficiency).

I think the future will be solar. When you think about it, all energy resources we have come from the sun, except nuclear (wind, petrol, tides, etc.). Time will tell...

Very interesting. Do you have any reference on this? In a CO2 exchange economy, this would be an easy thing to figure out but we are not there yet... I would be very glad to be wrong about my argument that an electric car in a coal based grid is a bad thing.

 

I'll take a Leaf in red... now please... Would I be able to trade in a 50MPG prius as a "clunker" someday??? (Now that would be a good day when 50 mpg is 'clunker'!)

 

Next time ask your questions first before making statements that are wrong, as if you are informed.

Go to calcars.org for a tutorial

 

Well this car has taken a LEAF out of a lot of other manufacturers books. GM, where's your Volt ? Toyota, that PHEV model needs dusting off and re-looking at. VW/Audi, BlueMotion is fine but its not the real thing. BMW, just because you can turn the engine off whilst idling doesn't make for a really fuel efficient car like this LEAF (given that electricity costs something, there is a cost to travel those 100 miles, even though it is small).

Having read through the debates on this topic, I can only agree with those who believe this car is the way forward (for now). I would happily trade my Prius for a LEAF as my daily commute is less than 30 miles. For longer trips (assuming no immediate infrastructure is in place) public transportation or daily hire are good alternatives. For example I only live 80 miles from London, but I would always catch a train there (45 minutes) versus driving in that chaotic environment (my best is 2 hours trip) and having to find somewhere to park (congestion charge free of course).

I love my Prius, but when the time comes to change it, this car will definitely get some serious study. By that time, some of the other manufacturers will hopefully have caught up (Pleeez Toyota) and could have better products, like 200+ miles before charge.

Personally I think the first electric car that can get 400 miles before a recharge (and maybe more hyper-gliding or whatever) will be the first mainstream electric car because at that range it will emulate the fill-ups of a normal car. Even with say a 10 to 15 minute recharge time on the road, this would not be a deal-breaker, just an excuse to drink more coffee

 

Yes:
STUDY: Even with electricity from coal, electric vehicles beat gas in CO2 emissions — Autoblog Green

Of course that is factoring 100% coal. While I do not think coal use in the USA will drop quickly, oil and natural gas use for electric will slowly be replaced by nuclear and wind.

 

Oregon is another big hydroelectric state. 80% of energy comes from hydro, 12% from nuclear, only 7% from coal. In California, <1% energy is from coal. New York State, 10% coal. Vermont and Hawaii, ZERO per cent energy is from coal, and so on. I don't want to bore people with all these numbers, but the point is there are many places in the country where EVs make a lot of environmental sense.

 

OK. It says...
"Every kWh from a coal plant produces two pounds of CO2, so we're talking 1.2 trillion pounds of CO2. The U.S. burned 3.3 billion barrels of gasoline in 2008, and a single gallon becomes 20 pounds of CO2 at the exhaust pipe"

Nissan Leaf runs 100miles using 24kWh, which means it emits 0.48 lbs/mile CO2.
Prius runs 50mpg, which means Prius emits 0.40 lbs/mile CO2.

For me, it looks Prius is cleaner than coal powered EV.

Ken@Japan

 

Which is silly because even if the Prius battery went belly up after 100K miles and you had to spend $2200 to by a new one rather than go with a good used one for fraction of the new cost, you'd still be ahead just from maintenance cost savings alone before you even figure in fuel cost savings.

 

Seriously?... I mean are you sure you got it right? Not trying to doubt you but I haven't read it.

Then again hybrids make up a very, very small amount of the cars out there even though they've risen a lot. So an EV, even one less efficient than the Leaf, could still conceivably be cleaner than most SUV's.

 

Are you following this thread?

I'm commenting to hampdenwireless's post.
Hope you know the differences between the most SUV's and the cleanest cars.

Ken@Japan

 

I have been following this thread enough to know you haven't been posting in it. Follow the thread and you'll see I have a lot of intelligent posts in it.

I'll make my post more simple for you. I was simply saying, wow what you're saying is the difference between the pollution an EV makes and what's made by the Prius isn't that great when you look at it that way. Since you missed it, I was paying your research a compliment and thanking you for doing the reading for others. I didn't look it up myself because my internet connection is slow.

 

That logic is flawed. You are taking the co2 emissions from the tailpipe of the Prius only which is quite unfair. Electric cars reduce TOTAL co2 emissions from the entire process of making and delivering the energy. Just the process of moving the gas from the refinery to the station and running the gas station (its electricity) brings the co2 of the prius over .48lbs/mile.

While I think coal is the WORST way of making energy for the environment most of the coal is dug up in PA and much of it is burned nearby. The rest is shipped by highly efficient trains. Half of the oil we used has traveled halfway around the world to get to us, then it has to be refined which is a huge point of inefficiency and co2 emissions.

The Leaf has very similar energy use per mile to the Tesla (within 20%). See below how the Tesla blows away the Prius in total well to wheel efficiency. I have not seen a link with that data for the Leaf as its just too new. Maybe in a few weeks.

Tesla Motors - well-to-wheel

 

Is that the cost of electricity alone or the cost of electricity plus the battery lease?