13 shutdown cases reported for Toyota Prius

So, with all the advanced tech in the Prius, it should be able to tell me how much fuel is left/being consumed when I'm travelling 30 MPH in 70 degree temps for say 20 minutes on flat ground, then suddenly accelerate to 60 MPH , going uphill where the temp has dropped to 40 degrees F for a 10 minute climb, then level off and stop, get out for 1/2 hour, letting the cold chill the car, then hop back in and drive down the hill, coasting the whole way, whilst the temp gets back to the 70s? And yes the temp swings here WILL do that!

That's a smart car if it can predict ALL driving conditions at ALL times. Even I can't predict the driving condtions from one block to the next. Too many other drivers change how I need to drive.

I guess I'm over the 'drive it till it's dry' period of Prius ownership. It seems 300 miles when cold and 400 miles when warm is pretty good for a tank of gas. Sometimes 500 miles. Your conditions and mileage may vary. As will your pumps and fill times and gasoline quality and octane. It's just not perfect out there...

 

Well, the "Prius dieing on the freeway" meme has caused my parents to cancel their order. :cussing: Sure wish they'd talked to me before doing that! They were a little concerned that the car would be too technical for them, and this just pushed them over the edge. sigh.

 

Happened to my wife a couple of months ago. Didn't report it and I'd imagine that few of us have...

Of course, I was in bed with a cold and it was pouring rain outside while she was stuck in downtown Oakland late at night. Fortunately I was able to browse priuschat and find the 'soft reset' procedure for the car in about 5 minutes.

Took it to the dealer and they said "yeah, bring it in and we'll flash it".

I've had every update imaginable (one of the first '04 models) and it looks like they missed this one...

 

every time you fill a car without a bladder you dump into the atmosphere what ever you displace by filling the tank. Be it 10 gallons or 20 gallons that hydocarbon laden air is push out of the tank and into the air we breath. How many gallons are pumped into vehicles every day, several million gallons and that hydrocarbon load all goes into the air we humans breath. Not in a NA Prius. The bladder expands when you fill it and contracts when you drive it. Brilliant idea.

 

Actually, the Escape Hybrid has the same emissions as the Prius and doesn't have a bladder and has a gas guage that indicates how much fuel is left in the tank with a good degree of accuracy. I do believe the no bladder and good gas gauge are related somehow.

 

General Question though regarding emissions. When a car is rated for emissions, aren't they talking about what comes out of the tailpipe? If this is the case Frank Hudon still makes an excellent point in that the Prius even minimizes emissions that are not normally measured! :mrgreen:

 

all the ratings are base on the EPA/Enviroment Canada average fuel consumption figures that come out the tail pipe. Fuel burnt =emissions produced. Evaporative emissions aren't taken into account.

 

From the Natural Resorces Canada EnerGuide they rate the vehicles on CO2 per year based on mileage and Liter of fuel used. The Prius produces 1969 kg of CO2 per year. The Ford Escape Hybrid 2 wheel drive produces 3263 Kg of CO2. The Escape is rated at 43/40 city/hi-way miles to the gallon and the Prius is rated at 71/67 miles to the gallon, Imperial gallon keep in mind.
(Edited) Based on 20,000 km's per year about 12,500 miles.

 

Yo Finman!

Yes the car can calculate how much fuel the car is actually "using" the atmospheric conditions are actually irrelevant. There is a certain amount of fuel that is suck out of the bladder and injected into the engine. The car knows EXACTLY how much fuel that is. That is how the instantaneous MPG is calculated, speed/consumption. (very basic formula)

The problem is the car has absolutely no idea of how much fuel is in the bladder. Plus since the bladder's capacity can fluctuate by over three gallons depending upon atmospheric conditions (this is where those conditions count, which they wouldn't if the bladder wasn't so badly designed) this could have serious safety repercussions if the fuel level wasn't calculated properly and you were in the desert.

Again, this is supposed to be a technologically advanced automobile and you would be telling me that it is perfectly acceptable that the fully gauge cannot accurately tell you how MUCH fuel is in the tank!!!! NO that is unacceptable.

 

Well, technically, it's acceptable, because you, I, and a couple hundred thousand others have accepted it. But it's certainly far from ideal.

When I talk about the Prius with non-Prius owners - which is not nearly often enough! - it pains me to mention that the gas gauge is grossly inaccurate.

 

As an earlier poster pointed out, the WSJ editorial folks jumped on this "story" with both feet because it fits in well with their prejudices. "Conservation? Left-wing-socialist-tree-hugger-one-world-government-pinko propaganda!" Our illustrious VP set the stage years ago in a speech where he dismissed conservation as good for nothing except "personal virtue", in tones dripping with contempt.

I'm sorry to hear about another poster whose parents cancelled their Prius order when they heard about this "story". That's what our elected pinheads, beholden as they are to Big Oil and the domestic auto industry, are probably hoping will happen.

OK, I'll go take my meds now...

 

I also agree that the bladder was a great idea. What better way to nearly eliminate evaporative emissions (a major contributor to smog). As for fuel gauge accuracy, I haven't had any problems at all. But at the same time, I don't wait until the last bar is blinking and then see how much further I can get away with driving. When my gauge gets down to two or three bars, I get gas. When I drive a conventional car, I wait until I'm below a quarter of a tank and I get gas. With the Prius I get great gas mileage, better range than most other cars, and all this without obsessing over the total capacity of the gas tank.

 

Cars without a bladder, are they accurate at cold temps?

I've experience with cold temps (though not the minus 40 that Jayman has!), and I noticed I didn't get the same number of tank miles out of my old Jeep and Pathfinder when cold.

Hmmm, that means the gas gauge isn't showing me the true fuel tank capacity, right? Why is that I wonder...winter fuel having less energy, gas engine working harder to stay warm (as well as keepin' me warm)? It seems to me I should have complained that the fuel guage was inaccurate.

I had to refuel ALOT earlier in the winter than in summer. Just a fact of life...AND the evaporative emissions were many times higher in a bladderless car.

I've no complaints to the "capacity" of the Prius gas tank. Others do. To each their own. Improvements will be made. Can't stop progress.

There are alot of other things to worry more about than what is the absolute max that I can get out of a tank of Prius gas.

PS It is sad that people are bailing on their Prius order because of the stalling scare. Give me a break. And the millions of safety recalls on other cars mean nothing? Just another Prius available for an eager buyer who is ready for hybrid tech. This car isn't for everyone, but is pretty darn close!

 

Both winter fuel blends and cold temperatures will reduce the number of tank miles in any car. But when your Jeep and Pathfinder were on E, they were probably truly on E, unlike the Prius where E(one bar left) can mean anything from E to 1/4 tank left.

 

Same here. I have a long habit going back to my teen years: when the guage shows a quarter of a tank, I refill at the first convenient opportunity. With the Prius, this is about 3 bars. I guess it's just because I'm cautious, but also I knew a guy back then who had a habit pushing a tank of gas as far as it would go. He was always running out of gas.

Of course, I would prefer that the guage were more accurate, but it's a very minor issue with me.

 

In my experience, my old vehicles would run out of gas much sooner in the winter if I were to push them to the E mark, than in the summer when I pushed them to the E mark.

Consumption is more in winter, thus running out of fuel can happen sooner than if in warmer temps. This means the gas guage isn't very accurate, even in my old vehicles. E was different depending on temp. Same spot on the E mark and I'd better fuel-up soon if in the cold, but I have a little while to go if it were warmer.

I've found that in cold temps my Prius tells me it's almost empty by flashing the last fuel bar. It does the same in warm temps. I use more fuel in the winter, than in the summer, thus the blinky light comes on earlier in the cold. Hmm, seems the system is working right, as it is telling me to not be an idiot and run out of fuel, go fuel up now. Which, by the way I have been an idiot and run out of gas in ALL my vehicles, including a motorcycle with a reserve tank! Pouring rain to boot, don't ask...

And yes I've pushed the envelope in my old vehicles just so I know the limit, in cold and in warm.

I've done the same with the Prius in both cold and warm temps. Similar results with my old vehicles as with the Prius: you run out of gas sooner past the E mark (flashing bar on Prius) in the cold.

No worries about the bladder for me. It works for me.

 

You know that makes no sense, right? The gas gauge is accurate, it's just your consumption that's changed. If it says you have 1 out of 15 gallons left, that's what you have. You won't get as far in the winter because your consumption is more, but the gauge itself is still accurate.

 

Yes and No Johnnycat,
You ar right consumption changes, but the car knows what its consumption is at all times, that's how you get the "instantaneous" MPG number, and you would be right to say that the gauge is accurate in that if it tells you there is one gallon left, then there is one gallon left.

Apparently though the level markings on the display are keyed to the total amount of fuel in the tank. Which means one bar does not always represent one gallon of fuel. So basically every time you re-fuel the gauge is re-calibrated to that amount of fuel in the tank, so as to not go to "11", it just makes 10 one higher!

Again, while generally the tank discrepancy in total fuel is under a gallon from fill-up to fill-up I have had several 3 gallon swings.

 

Okay, scenario one: It's cold, I'm at E (or flashing one bar in the Prius). I'll run out of fuel within 30 miles.

Scenario 2: it's warm, I'm at E (or flashing one bar in the Prius). I'll run out of gas within 70 miles.

Without getting too technical, the gas guage is doing it's job based on conditions. Lots of variables out there to make you think the guage is inaccurate (gas pumps, fill rate, driving fast, accelerating faster than needed). I think the Prius does a pretty good job at letting me know when to fill, despite the many things it has to consider.

I think a distance to empty calcualtion could be an improvement. Yes , there are improvements to be made.

 

another contributing factor is that almost all gas pumps are temperature compenstated to 55 Degrees F ( I believe it's 55 ) and as such pump different volumes as the temp changes.