Questions on Oil Capacity and Levels

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by Tempus, Feb 26, 2004.

  1. Tempus

    Tempus Senior Member

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    I know this has been discussed many times and many places, so forgive me for any repetiton.

    I've been reading all the major groups, and I just can't seem to get my hands around all of the issues in one place so I figured I'd ask here. If you're tired of the topic, feel free to ignore it :)

    I just picked up my new Prius less than a week ago. As many have suggested, I attempted to check the oil level at the dealership, but the oil was so light that neither I nor anyone else could get what we felt was an accurate reading. It was obvious though that it wasn't grossly over-filled.

    The Tech told me that "The oil is put in at the factory so it's always right the first time". Somehow, that doesn't quite jive with what I've read in various places, but I didn't have any proof of a problem, or any partiuclar reason to doubt him, so I drove off, just happy to have my new baby.

    After a week, the oil had darkened up enough to check reliably, and it looks like it's over the mark, but less than 1/8" (probably about 1/16) about an hour after last driving. The manual says to check shortly after driving, so some extra may have settled down in the meantime.

    Bottom line is, if possible I'd like to sort out the facts, and issues, and really understand what's going on here.

    1) Does the Factory really put in the oil first time? If so, it stands to reason they'd get it right?

    2) What are the real capacities. I've seen 3.8Qt without filter and 3.9Qt with filter quoted a number of places. I've also seen a number of sites just list it as "4 Qt". It kind of puzzles me from an engineering standpoint that Toyota would make it such an odd number, particularly if overfilling is a real issue. If I were designing it, I'd have found a spot to stash an extra .1 Qt somewhere in the system, just to keep things simple.

    3) What is over-filled, measured when? Since I'm right on the borderline, it's likely things like Temperature and Time since stop would make a perceptable difference. What are the official, or generally accepted conditions for how/when to read the level?

    4) What exactly are the problems with over-filling? I've seen a consensus that it's a mileage hit, but I've also seen folks saying it can do actual harm.

    Bottom line is, I'm trying to decide if the car is in fact over-filled, and how important it might be to fix it immediately if it is. The dealer has a free 1000 mile oil change waiting for me after break-in, If there's a slight mileage hit, I feel fine going to that point before getting fussy about it. If there's a potential for damage, obviously I'd take a different approach.

    Any insight appreciated.
     
    #1 Tempus, Feb 26, 2004
  2. satchm0

    satchm0 New Member

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    You should generally let the car sit about 5-10 minutes (after use) before checking the oil level - give it time to settle (and cool a bit).

    If it is only 1/16" over the full line, don't sweat it. You're fine.
     
    #2 satchm0, Feb 26, 2004
  3. sibtrag

    sibtrag Junior Member

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    Clearly the engine oil must be filled at the factory. Not even Toyota has good enough QC to ship a car without starting the engine. Also, it must be driven short distances during delivery, and I doubt they would rely on keeping the car in "stealth" mode.

    I think the real question is whether the dealers always change the oil just before delivery. The delivery checklist (on the YG) just shows checking the oil level.
     
    #3 sibtrag, Feb 26, 2004
  4. Jerry P

    Jerry P Member

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    4 qts. with a filter change is too much. Mine ended up about 1/4 in. above the full mark. 3.8 qt. is probably closer. Some have posted that you can damage the engine, but I have never seen a post where this has actually happened. Since I do my own changes, I installed a Fumoto valve so I can easily drain some off if I overfill it.
     
    #4 Jerry P, Feb 26, 2004
  5. siai

    siai Junior Member

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    I couldn't figure out what to do with that last .1 quart of oil either. I suppose the rest of the world is using liters so it just doesn't work out quite right for us. I did however solve the refill problem by putting a larger capacity filter on at my last oil change. After checking the mounting hole size, drainback valve and relief pressures on the OEM Toyota filter, I was able to cross-reference it to a filter with just enough extra capacity that I can put the full four quarts of oil in and get rid of the last oil bottle. Plus, the more filter media that you have, the less chance you have of bypassing the filter when it is cold.
     
    #5 siai, Apr 2, 2004
  6. bookrats

    bookrats New Member

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    Two questions:

    • A Fumoto valve seems like a good investment with a Prius. However, I'm not the person to try to install it. (Trust me on this one.) Is this the kind of thing that you can order one through Toyota (or just bring one in), and have them install it on the Prius? Or could this be done by an independent mechanic?
    • I know in the last 3 weeks that I saw a wonderfully detailed description of how to do an oil and oil filter change on a '04 Prius. Had step-by-step photos and everything. Naturally, I assumed it was on John's site, but I can't find it there, or here on PriusChat, nor on two of the Yahoo File sections. Anyone know what I'm talking about, and where it is?

      • Thanks in advance!
     
    #6 bookrats, Apr 2, 2004
  7. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    > Had step-by-step photos and everything. Naturally, I assumed it was on John's site, but I can't find it there

    I haven't created one yet.

    But your timing is amazing, tomorrow is when I'll be changing oil. So if all goes as planned, I'll be able to take step-by-step photos.

    No promises on when the document would be available though.

    So... are there any things I should pay particular attention to?

    Having changed oil in many vehicles over the past 2 decades, I'm sure my procedure has differed from the norm... but then again, changing oil in Prius is unlike others vehicles anyway (since the engine is offset, rather than centered).
     
    #7 john1701a, Apr 2, 2004
  8. RobertO

    RobertO New Member

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    The Futomo Oil Drain Valve is easy to install. It simply screws into the oil drain hole instead of the drain plug.

    That's about it.

    You may want to keep the original drain plug and a new Toyota drain plug washer on hand for "posterity" - or for a visit to the dealer if they might be a little spikey about the drain valve.

    Some dealers may refuse to install the Futomo or any other drain valve. You'll have to do a little "Social Engineering" with the Service Advisor or the mechanic if you can get to them without the SA knoing about it.

    Otherwise just install it yourself or have and independent mechanic do it.

    One Service Advisor I talked to said - on condition of anonymity - that he could't see how the Futomo valve would void the warranty unless it somehow lost oil and the the engine cooked.

    The valve has only two positions; open and closed. There is a lever you must lift to open it. When you close it, the lever snaps back into place.

    They cost around $ 22.00 from the distributor in Bellevue, WA.



    Bob (in Bellevue WA no less)
     
    #8 RobertO, Apr 2, 2004
  9. bookrats

    bookrats New Member

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    Thanks for the info and advice, Bob!
     
    #9 bookrats, Apr 3, 2004
  10. Gen2

    Gen2 Member

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      • Bookrats,

        I didn't see a response posted so here it is:

        http://john1701a.com/

        Click on Prius Info
        Clickon Oil Change
     
    #10 Gen2, Apr 24, 2004
  11. Lectricar

    Lectricar New Member

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    the oil change on the Prius is extremely easy..the only problem i encountered was trying to get the car to idle to check for leaks. Anyone know how to do this?
     
    #11 Lectricar, Apr 24, 2004
  12. Gen2

    Gen2 Member

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    I did notice that if I slightly depressed the accelerator pedal with the car on, and in Park, the ICE would start and run for as long as the pedal was depressed. Don't know if there is any other way to do it.
     
    #12 Gen2, Apr 24, 2004
  13. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Set the heater temperature & blower to maximum. That will force the engine to run for awhile, since that is how the heat is created.
     
    #13 john1701a, Apr 24, 2004
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