We averaged 66.6mpg in a Sportwagen over ~2000 highway miles. 2-4 people plus luggage in the car. So I would say yes to being able to deliver 50mpg.
So let's look over the options: Manual transmission, anything - not going to happen Automatic transmission, Golf - poor mileage Automatic transmission Prius - better than manual transmission Golf ... I've sat in a Jetta TDI. Have you sat in a 2010 Prius? With a Prius, you'd get better mileage than your current Golf, improved emissions, a lot of space and the Prius cost less than a replacement, diesel wagon in the USA. Better still, the Prius are quiet and use affordable, low octane gasoline and have no problem starting in the cold. Best of all, there are Prius drivers who have driven 1,000 miles from a single, 12 gallon tank, that is over 80 MPG. Height was not a problem and leg room was OK after I got the seat slid back. It wasn't until I got out that I noticed the door jam was 'in the way.' But unlike the Honda Insight, I didn't bang my head on the door jam trying to get in. Bob Wilson
I know a friend that has a 06 TDI Jetta. Bought entended warranty up to 100K. Flywheel went out, wasn't even covered by factory extended warranty. Dealer estimated repair to only cost around $400, ended up being a $2500 job, self pay. Need to read fine prints these days on everything. I thought about it also, but Prius has better resale value, more reliable, those alone already decided for me.
Highway-Only cruising is for only a small number of consumers though. Mixed driving swings heavily in the favor of hybrids like Prius, since highway-only cruising is the worst for it but the best engine-only diesels like Jetta TDI. Overall MPG average, that real-world data, reveals the true story. Few actually drive almost exclusively highway miles. .
I was simply answering your inquiry into whether the TDI can deliver 50mpg on the highway. I hope you now realize that it can do that, and much more. I'm very aware that the Prius will kill the TDI in the city and that most don't drive purely on the highway. No, I have not sat in a 2010 Prius. Hopefully I will be soon, however. I'm not sure what you are talking about or what you are trying to prove with your comparison? What relevance at all does it have to the 66.6mpg we got in the Sportwagen? Why are we comparing a 2001 Golf to a 2010 Prius? Why would anybody cross-shop a 2001 Golf TDI with a 2010 Prius Are you trying to show that your car is superior to mine? Good for you for getting the new Prius; it's the most fuel efficient choice for most people. It sounds like you're trying to sell me on the new Prius. I know that it is an amazing machine and will do many things better than my car. The 2010 Prius did not exist when I got my car, and I will not be getting one any time soon unless you want to send $30000 my way. A manual transmission is definitely an option if I am shopping for a new car. Winnipeg is in Canada, and if I am shopping for a new vehicle, I am shopping here. So prices in the USA don't have much importance when I am shopping for cars; the Jetta TDI Sportwagen is ~$2000CAD cheaper than the new Prius. Interesting, but you could have done some better research before launching into your sales pitch, if that is what you are trying to do. Diesel fuel is generally cheaper than regular unleaded in Winnipeg. Right now, diesel is about 20% less. I haven't had any problems starting in the cold. It takes a bit longer, but no problems. Why is it that if somebody knows about TDI's, he is assumed to know nothing about the Prius? That is the impression I am getting here.
I think it is just an artifact of you owning a VW and our rash of VW trolls that come and go on this forum. Maybe a lot of people don't know who you are or how long you've been around here and other MPG type forums? Anyway, I always appreciate your reasoned input. Thanks
I hope he does not mind, but Mike is the gentleman who beat up every hybrid in the MPG challenge last summer at HybridFest 2008. And despite not owning a hybrid (yet), he knows enough and he is far more open minded about hybrids than some hybrid owners are about current Diesel tech. Cheers; MSantos
unfortunatly, happens quite often. People in USA expect new diesels to be reliable as old iron block diesels from 80's that didnt even have turbo's. This is not reality. Statistically, you are going to have more problems with your modern turbodiesels, things like clutch, flywheel, transmission, turbo charger, oil consumption, fuel pump, cat failures happen a lot more on diesels than petrol vehicles. We sell >60% diesels here and this is what happens.
Since you're from Winnipeg, I would guess 66 Miles per IMPERIAL Gallon so this is actually 55 Miles per US gallon. But you're right still above the 50 mpg mark on the highway.
I believe he was riding with Wayne Gerdes on that run. Wayne would not make this mistake, and has it listed as 66.556 US MPG. And if the Australian couple could get 58.8 mpg in their 48 state tour last summer, then I believe Wayne and everyone driving with him could achieve well past 60.
I thought I was going to get a TDI, then drove the prius I was ready to by a Jetta sportswagon TDI...I was a little nervous as my experience with VW's are that the are overly engineered (and complex, thus prone to failure). My purpose was to replay a 2005 Subaru Forester that eats O2 sensors (1 front, 1 back 2x per year....the second one would be under warrenty, but 1K/yr in o2 sensors). As part of my due dilligence, I decided to look at the 2010 Prius. I knew I did not like the '05 Prius (when I bought the Forester). It was a good Hybrid, but an ok car overall (IMHO). I was blown away by the 2010 Prius...Decent accelleration, and it felt like a good car that happens to be a Hybrid. So, I bought it instead of the TDI....One of the thing is most of my driving is city, and I was not confident that I would break 30 MPG on my commute (with the TDI). (My subaru got 17 MPG). After three days, I am very happy. I am getting 52 MPG on my commute, which should save me about $200/month. So, that, coupled with the O2 sensor savings should almost cover the carpayment. Oh, and my Gen III Prius III was 4K less than a TDI, though the TDI has more storage space, and better road feel.
Not the automatic. Did you notice your signature? I believe it states "2001 VOLKSWAGEN GOLF ." Then there is your boast about achieving better than 50 MPG on the highway. You do remember me pointing out about the 1,000 mile tank club in Japan, right? That is 1,000 miles using 12 gallons or in excess of 80 MPG. That really makes 66 MPG seem a bit light-weight, don't you know. Your choice to post here and that suggests you are shopping. With a 9 year old Golf, it makes sense you are in the market for a replacement. I just wanted to make sure you had the facts and data. Regardless of what car you get to replace the Golf, some money will be involved. Fortunately, even the NHW20 Prius out performs your Golf and they are becoming very affordable in the used market. So how much have you budgeted for the Golf replacement? Then look at the used, NHW20 Prius market. They will beat the Jetta TDI Sportswagen in price and performance. To keep things in perspective, the Prius starter has in excess of 18 kW of power. Furthermore, the control computer does not apply spark or gas until the engine is spinning with full oil lubrication. What this does is avoid the 'cold start' problem that ages ordinary vehicles. The traction battery has 20 kW of power so this means it will work in even the coldest weather. I figured you came here to learn from those who have Prius experience. I'm surprised more folks haven't realized that you came here to be sold on buying a replacement Prius for that worn out Golf. After all, we're just here to help folks like you. <GRINS> Bob Wilson
Actually, I realized they are just Prius customers who need a sales pitch. Don't argue, sell them a Prius. <GRINS> We have the facts and data and more than enough history to know the strengths of our vehicles. So let's use them 'to sell a Prius.' Nothing like converting the honorable competition into 'Prius People.' So what sales pitch to use? It depends upon how they come but most of all 'change up' works. Nothing destroys their defenses faster than a change-up ... they don't think well on their feet. <GRINS> We can be come the "Sham Wow" guy of Prius car sales so let's sell those prospects! Bob Wilson
fuzzy1, I was indeed with Wayne and it was in US gallons. F8L, I'm glad to hear that some people appreciate my input Manuel, thanks for the kind words. It means a lot to me when somebody like you has my back. Glad I can make you grin, Bob. Now let's talk. What data do you have to confirm this? We did not test one so I'm uncertain as to what the automatic can do on the highway, although I would be very surprised if it was that much worse than the manual. But you seem quite certain of this, so please show me how you came to this conclusion. I like data almost as much as you do. Very observant. I noticed that too. I merely answered john's question and had no intention of boasting. How am I to answer his question of without sounding like I'm boasting, if you consider >50mpg a boast? I do remember you pointing that out about the 80mpg people from Japan. Good for them, and too bad so many others can't drive like them. Have you heard of the hypermilers who did almost 1400 miles in a Prius for >100mpg? Or the guy who got >80mpg in a TDI at the MPG challenge at Hybridfest 2008? In the end, those all make 66mpg sound light-weight, as you put it. But I'm still quite happy with our result, given the conditions were likely completely different from the conditions that generated any of those other numbers. I wonder if I asked around here, how many people would consider 66mpg on their commutes or cross-country drives light-weight? I'm not shopping. I just come by time to time to try to answer some questions and clear up some misconceptions about diesels and TDI's. I was hoping you would have seen enough of my posts by now to have figured that out. I should probably my intentions in my signature or else others may make the same mistake, or will start applying the troll stamp to me because I own a VW. If I were shopping, I have better sources for facts and data. So you don't need to worry about my car situation or budget I can manage those, along with the research, well enough on my own. Good for it. I already knew that. Please repeat after me: seftonm has an understanding of how the Prius works. Repeat as necessary. I appreciate your attempt at help, but I can manage on my own with my other sources. I'm really here to provide help and understanding, not the other way around. My car's not feeling worn out at all, I still really enjoy driving it and am looking forward to going out for a drive once I finish up this post. PS: I got to drive a 2010 Prius today. Nice car.
Wouldn't there be more value in being on a VW forum if this was indeed true? If I have any questions about the TDi I'll go looking for a TDi forum. I suspect most people come to a Prius forum for the first time to find information about the Prius not TDi or Geo Metro's for that matter.
Some interesting reading from CleanMPG.com How do Diesels Compare to Hybrids? Portland 2 Portland Green Test Drive is crossing the country seftonm, Thanks for your reasoned input on both the CleanMPG and PRIUSchat forums.
I have had (24,000 miles worth) the 09 jetta tdi sport wagon. I now have a 2010 Prius (my fourth prius overall). They both are excellent automobiles. They both can have service issues. The interior fit and finish had always favored the vw. For many it was more "typically car like" than the prius. I find the drivers seat more comfortable in the 2010 prius than in my previous prius's and as comfortable as the tdi. Both great cars - here's the difference. They do different things well. When the majority of my driving was west texas on the interstate with long hauls at 75-80 mph the tdi was the car to have. Once you start throwing short haul and city driving into the mix the prius produced a higher mpg number. Unless your unlucky you can count on good service from both cars. The cost of either fuel varies from season to season and in the end if you select the car that best suits your driving needs becomes a wash.
And that is why I bout the Prius...Most of my driving is in the city....on city streets....15 mile commute. I was getting 17 in a Subaru Forester. I figure I would have gotten in the Upper 20' to low 30's in the TDI sports wagon. I am getting low 50's typicall, and mid 60's when I try to do well (trip more than 5 miles is 66.3 MPG). Note that I have had the car for 3 days.
Mike, I read your posts here and on CleanMPG.com so I know you are not a troll. I wish we could get everyone else to realize this. Was your first ride in a 2010 Prius in Manuel's car?
