Did you consider a Jetta TDI before going Prius?

OK, let’s assume someone does have a 40 mile round trip commute and this guy drives those 40 miles every non-working day too.

With gas at 2.85, in five years, this guy will save 4,161.00 compared to the Prius (assuming 50 MPG of fuel economy in the Prius)

But we know $2.85 for 5 years is not realistic. Let's say an average of $4 in 5 years. The savings would be: 5,840.00.

Since the Volt is going to be more expensive, in 5 year, it's going to value more than a 5 year old Prius too, despite of the higher depreciation in Chevys compared to Toyota.

NOW, one more VERY important factor here: this same guy may have a way to charge it at work and he may come back home to charge it as well in those non-working days. In that case, he could easily save over 10K in period of 5 years with the Volt blowing the Prius away!!!

So, for the guy in my example (and GM claims to be the majority in the US), he can easily get back that extra investment in the Volt with time... think about it!

 

I don't need to think hard on this. I don't need a car to commute to work in.

But if one did commute, then does he need to own a second vehicle for long trips, vacations, etc? I drive 40,000 miles a year. A lot of it is 20 mile trips but a lot of it is 300 mile round trips to my mom's house and about 3 to 4 trips to the beach or out of state and a couple of trips to Pittsburgh for ball games and the zoo and a couple of trips to NYC. How long will the road side rest areas let me park and recharge?

For the real naysayers, those that still complain about how much the Prius batteries cost, how long do you think it will take people to have confidence in GM's batteries?

 

Assuming the guy will plug in every single time. He will forget sometimes and he will be lazy sometimes. For long weekend trips more than 20 miles away from home, he'll use gas. In the freezing winter, Volt will start up gas engine to bring the battery pack to the operating temp; again will use gas. All of the above "real-world" reasons will bring the MPG to about 100. We'll see how EPA will test the Volt... but I remember them talking about the 100 MPG target.

I hope the Volt comes with 10 years or 150k miles battery warranty because $20k for the replacement pack won't be cheap. The Volt is designed to "abuse" the battery pack. The pack has to propel the car, passenger, cargo, the gas engine and the gas tank. For full acceleration, the gas engine won't help out. How crazy is that? What happened to the team work like how HSD utilizes?

Prius (50 MPG) will use 3,000 gallons of gas in it's life (industry standard 150k miles). If Volt averages 100 MPG, it will displace 1,500 gallons and use electricity. That's comes with the extra $15k to $20k price tag. Basically, it will cost the Volt owner $10 to $13 per gallon to displace gasoline. There will be someone willing to do that but it will not be mainstream.

 

How many people will get fired for filling thier car up at the company plug???

I can see office buildings with extension cords hanging out of the windows now.

 

Geezz guys, you both are ignoring the most important factor here: after the 40 miles the Volt will run in hybrid mode. So, it's not like, you drive 40 miles and run only on gas until will can recharge it.

I read an article (can't remeber where right now) where the editor was saying that EPA will have a hard time estimating the MPG in the Volt, because depending on the driving needs it can be anything from ZERO gas spending to 100 MPG or more! So, what do say?

And remember: Toyota is also working in a Plug-in hybrid, which proves that they are worried about the current Prius technology being poisoned to become obsolete in few years...

 

Watching someone plug in their car while it's raining would be fun. There would be office pools to pick the first to get zapped.

 

TDI will become more obsolete than the Prius.

Volt owner in CA may be able to use no gas at all. So why lug around the gas tank and gas engine? Wouldn't a smaller lighter EV (like MiEV) make more sense? MiEV has the same 16kWh pack as the Volt but goes twice further.

There is a government incentive (tax credit) for plugins. $2,500 for 4kWh pack and max out at $7,500 for 16kWh. Even with that incentive, Toyota does not fully believe plugin is beneficial. They acknowledged the benefits but also the drawbacks. The price is a big factor and as well as real-world usage. The source of where the electricity come from is also a factor.

Remember, Toyota has been testing plug-in in the real-world usage across the globe for about 2 years with different types of lithium battery chemistries and the second generation (2010 Plugin) is being tested. Depending on how that performs, they may decide to sell it to the public. Volt hasn't been tested in real-world usage and they picked the LG chem Lithium polymer over the A123 nano LiFePo4 technology after testing it in the lab. Two very different approaches and I think Toyota's approach is better.

Volt in hybrid (charge sustain) mode won't be as efficient as the Prius or Insight. It may get 30-40 MPG.

 

we'll see. let's talk about this again in 10 years

 

no.
diesel availability is spotty in some areas

 

I have already worked at two places with a few reserved spaces, with outlets, for electric cars. One was even pre-21st Century.

The facilities department should check the GFCIs under the rain caps periodically.

 

I was joking about the image of cords hanging out windows (most offices do not use GFCI's). But I can also imagine people doing it.

 

It looks like J1772 is going to be the standard plug.

 

The VW dealership re-opened, apparently it had been closed, and just got their inventory this week. Not having enough time for a test drive, I had a few minutes at lunch time to sit in one:

• much better than Honda Insight - the TDI sedan is less than Prius in terms of space. Did not have time to look at the TDI wagon.
• driver seat OK - but when adjusted for my legs, I have to deal with getting around the door post to get in and out.
• driver seat seems a little lower, closer to ground but could be seat adjustment. Prius is 'just right' so I'm not sure the Jetta seat height is better, worse, or no difference. Right now, I'm leaning towards no difference.
• instruments readable - the Honda Insight instruments were tiny and I felt like I was looking through a narrow tube formed in part by the steering wheel. Prius instruments are never blocked by the steering wheel. The TDI wheel is larger so you don't have the Insight "tunnel" effect.
• fold-down rear seats appear to give reasonable space - more than Insight but less than Prius

Until I can rent one for a couple of days, I can't really offer much more but the city mileage, 29 MPG, is a deal breaker. Also, the price, $24,269, before taxes and fees, again, too much.

The 2010 Prius is a mid-size sedan and I understand the Jetta TDI is still listed as a small car. However, compared to the Honda Insight, the Jetta TDI is better than the Insight but neither really competes with the 2010 Prius.

Bob Wilson

 

Jetta TDI is a great car! we test drove it.

The exhaust DOESNT smell like diesel and the engine is quiet. Wonderful german engineering.

I recommend it to people who want safety and great highway mileage with low emissions.

The sales guy gave me a paper towel and I placed on the exhaust pipe while he reved the engine for a while. he said only water comes out as the pollutants are absorbed in the process with the catalytic converter.

I dont think it removes all of it but wow it didnt smell at all.

VERY IMPRESSIVE.

I used to own a VW in my youth and they are solid cars.

But...I am looking forward to my new Prius coming in a couple weeks!

 

It is cleaner but not as clean as gas version. I posted comparison with other hybrids.

http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-iii...sight-civic-hybrid-jetta-gas-tdi-wrx-sti.html

 

wow > excellent review!!!

 

The salesman was lying to you or he is just highly uninformed. The reason he did that test is because the new diesels do a much better job of reducing PM (particulate matter) which is what you see coming out of older diesels. What you will not see is CO2 (carbon dioxide), NOx (nitrogen oxides), SOx (sulfur oxides), CO (carbon monoxide), and other trace emissions. They are invisible to our eyes and mostly odorless yet very polluting nonetheless. Gasloline vehicles also emit PMs but they are very fine and technically more harmful because they can more easily reach your delicate lung tissue than the larger visible particles could.

More information on pollutants emitted from motor vehicles:

Describes the common 4 categories of pollutants

Air Toxics from Motor Vehicles

What are the health & environmental effects of toxic air pollutants?

 

Bob, did you try adjusting the seat height in the Jetta? My mid-level 2001 Golf has height adjusters so I would certainly expect any trim level of the 2009 Jetta to have them.

usbseawolf2000, there's actually a lot going on during combustion in the TDI to reduce emissions. Unfortunately, reduces the efficiency of the engine a little. That alone isn't enough though so there still has to be aftertreatment going on. If you were to consider CO2 and evaporative emissions of the TDI vs the gasser Jetta, I believe the comparison would tilt in favor of the TDI.

 

I'm 6'3" tall and felt a lot more comfortable in the jetta TDIncompared to the Prius, although the Prius is not bad. I believe the center console of the Prius was responsible for the cramping effect.

 

Vague comments like that is typical greenwashing. Actual real-world data tends to end debate.

Are the emissions really low enough to earn a PZEV rating?

Is the highway mileage good enough to deliver 50 MPG?
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