Did you consider a Jetta TDI before going Prius?

That has been my point all along. I don't feel like I downgraded and I know ALL about high performance vehicles. It's all in your head mate. One day it will make sense and a calm with wash over you like a cool summer breeze. LOL

 

very true,I've driven many cars. the Jetta TDI isnt the end all and be all for handling and acceleration. Both the Fusion and altima hybrids drive just as well (if not better with 0-60 times of 7 sec which beats the tdi by MORE than one second). The jetta is nice but it is not the leader in any class.

 

LOL... You're funny!

 

Absolutely true!

 

I didn't mean that in a disrespectful way. I meant that once you decide to think differently about a subject your opinion and emotions change. It's all in your head.

It's like a bad girlfriend or boyfriend. At first you loved them but once you made up your mind that they are nothing but a skank or scrub then your opinion and emotion changes.

 

Mate, I know what you meant and I agree. The Prius appearance, for instance, has never impressed me, to be honest, I have always found it very ugly, but now, every time I’m going across the parking lot at work and see all those parked Priuses (I think I made up the plural for Prius), then I go: "what a beauty"

 

Automakers scrap diesel plans: AutoWeek Magazine

Bob Wilson

 

Bob, the halt is mainly due to the need of reducing operating costs as a consequence of the financial crisis. Most of these automakers have hybrid technology in a much more advanced stage compared to Diesel, which is exactly the opposite of VW. So, it makes much more sense for them financially to simply halt their diesel TDI projects. It is not by coincidence that top automakers like Honda, Toyota, and Nissan are investing in clean diesel technology. The cost of developing a clean diesel engine is actually cheaper than hybrid gas-electric engines and these automakers know the diesel TDI technology holds a good position in the future. Besides, the potential for a hybrid diesel-electric is real and could easily bring MPG to the 70-80 mark. I was very excited about the clean diesel CR-V, originally supposed to launch in 2010, and now undetermined due to the halt. It was supposed to run in the range of 30-36 MPG instead of 20-26, a 10MPG improvement at higher torque and power, very fun to drive.

 

If manufactures plan to meet the new 35mpg target they better be spending money. We bail them out and then give them a goal that is impossible looking to reach.

A Diesel-hybrid Sequoia at 25+ mpg would interest me to sit in my garage with the Prius.

BTW, I saw in the Motor Trend that came yesterday that after 17,000 miles they are averaging around 35 mpg in their TDI. They also are meeting that average it appears because several staffers are doing a lot of highway milage.

 

You are exactly right and I agree, but the problem is, many automakers are so behind in the clean diesel technology, that making a hybrid gas-electric provides a quicker fix to meet the new regulations.

 

The problem with diesel only is that it puts us no closer to the end goal of zero fossil fuel combusted. At least hybrid technology pushes battery technology and will eventually make battery packs cheap enough to be the sole power source for a vehicle thus saving fossil fuels for more important things than hauling someone's butt around town.

 

But hybrid Diesel-electric technology would push battery technology even more...

 

Please explain.

 

VW, a leader in clean diesel technology, is already introducing their new TDI-electric hybrids.

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/02/volkswagen_to_i.php

See also the other article links in the end of the article if interested.

This technology not only deliver better MPG and less emissions than conventional hybrid gas-electric but also ensures investments on improving the electric piece of the technology, which means better batteries in the future.

Can you imagine strongly reliable brands with already strong hybrid technology like Toyota and Honda producing hybrid diesel-electric cars? They would probably easily hit the 90-100 MPG and still keep pushing improvements in the electric technology.

 

I'm still not seeing how this will improve battery technology and get us to full electric any faster.

I won't argue that the efficiency is higher and this would be great for larger rigs that cannot run off of electricity alone.

 

AFAIK, it is only a concept car. Note that Golf is a compact car. There is nothing that said it is cleaner than gas-electric hybrids. No mention of the electric motor power or battery capacity. It may only be a start/stop or mild hybrid technology.

CO2 emission is 89 gram/km which is the same as the mid-size 2010 Prius. In my opinion, the smaller Golf TDI hybrid with 15% more energy in the fuel should output lower CO2.

Golf TDI hybrid is expected to pass Tier2 Bin5 (LEV II). Prius and other Toyota/Lexus hybrids achieve SULEV emission.

Diesel is improving but it is no where near the level of gas-electric hybrids. There is also concern about TDI hybrid premium cost. It may be the reason it is still a concept.

 

Looking solely at the reviews, the Prius and the TDI have scored very similarly. But, the Prius wins in the MPG department. Also, the TDI will eventually need a new battery, as all cars do, but It will be cheaper than the Prius'. Volkswagen Jetta TDI :: MotorMouths

 

OK guys, I think I was not clear enough. Just take the gas engine itself. Forget about the electric engine of hybrids. The new TDI clean diesel engines have better MPG and lower emissions compared to a gas engine alone.

Now, imagine a Prius with an improved clean diesel engine instead of the gas engine. The result would be much improved MPG, probably around 70-90, and low emissions overall. Does that make sense?

In addition, since the diesel-electric is still a hybrid, there will be still pressure to optimize the electric component to improve MPG, because electric only (like the Chevy Volt for 40 miles!) is the most fuel efficient and cleanest way as possible.

Speaking of the Chevy Volt, I see many people saying who is going to buy a hybrid of 35-40K? Well, many people are investing well over 30K in a Prius, so I can see many of those who have a <40 mile commute (GM claims it’s represented by 75% of Americans I think) switching to the Volt to get ZERO emissions and NO gas expenses.

 

I'd have no problem paying $40K for a car that is versatile enough that I can use it for everyday driving and all my needs like vacations or a trip to the family (150 miles away). But if it's only going to be good for <100 miles then that's a lot of money for a comuter only car.

I don't see people lining up for that (other than a few die hards, not main stream commuters)

 

Not really. See my post in the other thread.

The reason Prius and Lexus hybrids are so clean is due to Atkinson cycle. Atkinson cycle gas engine and electric motor complement each other. Super ultra low emission and eye popping MPG are due to the synergy between those two powertrains.

Otto cycle gas engine is as clean or cleaner than the best TDI. CARB rates the Civic as Ultra Low Emission Vehicle while Jetta TDI as Low Emission Vehicle.

Can Diesel have different combustion cycle to lower it's emission? Not that we know of... which is why it needs very complex and expensive after-treatment emission equipments. I highlighted the after-treatment because it filters the exhaust rather than dealing with the source of the pollution (during combustion).