Just lost all my respect for Car and Driver

I'll give it up after this observation.

I guess being declaired an "enthusiast" has difficulties standing the test of time. I was just looking at some spec's on what might be classified, at least in their prime, enthusiast cars. The 260Z and BMW 320i were cult cars in their time. People who drove them were probably considered enthusiast. However the spec's for power, 0-60 times and skidpad results are actually fairly close to the 2010 prius V.

Does a car once it becomes out dated and outperformed by mere economy cars of the now future lose their status of enthusiast car? If the term has any relativity towards pure specs then these now need to be tossed from the list. Surely a restored to original spec car from this era would now be a boring car to drive. Not only that but they got poor milage. Looking back they were just slow gas guzzling sports cars and sedans. I can't believe now looking back as to how excited I was when I drove my new 1981 BMW320i

My whole point with the C&D comments wasn't with their dislike of the Prius, heck I would have never bought one before the 2010 myself, it was simply their narrow definition of what qualifies one to be an enthusiast.

 

I think this could be qualified somewhat as it's also a matter of degree.

Aside from my Prius, I've test-driven a Mini Cooper S. I've also at one time owned a Ford Crown Victoria.

There's no question that the Mini out-handles and smokes the Prius off the line... but at the same time, the Prius easily out-handles the Crown Vic.

Understanding and appreciating the real-world differences of these cars, I do in fact enjoy driving the Prius on twisty mountain roads.

There are also a couple of performance/handling characteristics that are almost completely unique to the Prius.

One is the 30.5' turning circle of my 2002. Few cars currently can match this level of nimbleness, save for either microcars like the Smart Car or low-end models like the Toyota Yaris. Comes in very handy in the urban jungle wherein I spend most of the time driving.

The other unique feature, a result of the hybrid power-train, is the absolutely smooth acceleration up to speed, given that no shifting of gears takes place. Only a pure electric vehicle might accelerate more smoothly, and while this does not a hot-rod make, there is a definite physicality to this performance that for me is a valid sensibility.

 

I believe Car and Driver likes cars that can handle some business on twisty back roads.

Hate to break it to you, but the Gen2, non-touring Prius (why are we talking gen2 anyway? 2009 was mentioned in OP)...

seems tepid on twisty, challenging backroads. Oftentimes there are drivers out for a little fun on a backroad, nothing crazy fast, but decent pace. I don't feel comfortable doing anything near 'spirited' in my 2009, on tight, curvy roads. Then again, I baby the car.

And I've seen Bay Area backroads hundreds of times on 2 wheels. One of those pesky sportbikers. Less lately.

But, I enjoy my car for what it is - quiet, smooth, docile, economical ...

 

I started with your list and thought I was reading my own message for a split second. I've had 3 300zx TT, a C5, and an FX45 too.

 

[FONT=&quot]What a ridiculous thread. Just because someone has a different opinion than yours on car and driver you start this whole new thread called [/FONT]Just lost all my respect for Car and Driver
[FONT=&quot]So you want to tell me that you lost your whole respect for a well known, quality car magazine just because he gave that piece of crap a 1/10. Of course its gonna have a 1/10 its a piece of crap!!!(the old one anyway)

I drove a Prius for the first time last week, rented one in CA. Thats gotta be the WORST car ive ever driven and the noise... SO MUCH Noise I had the stereo on max volume and still didnt hear the music, my back was hurting, I think its the first time I stopped in EVERY rest area i saw just to get out of that torture. I even changed my facebook status to "what goes in a zig zag no matter how hard u try to keep it straight? A Prius" u should change the title to good job car and driver for giving an enthusiast 1/10 cause it deserves a 0!

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][/FONT]

 

sigh

Good lord! What a bunch of drivel your post is. Sigh... From looking at your prior posts, you've delivered enough misinformation already so I'm even doubtful you actually did drive one. From some of your earlier exchanges, I don't think you made too many friends here and I think that list just got shorter.

I've driven FAR worse cars than the Prius and can name some of them off the top of my head: Chevy Cavalier, Pontiac Sunfire, Chevy Metro, Chevy Chevette, Daewoo Lanos, Chevy Classic

Sure, it's louder than your Lexus RX400h, but it's got a lot less road noise than my 350Z and quieter at full throttle. The "premium" stereo on mine is fine and plenty loud enough even at 80 mph.

And gee, I've driven it >520 miles each way from San Jose, CA to Vegas and back. I just got back from a >350 mile drive to LA, drove >300 miles while in the LA are and drove back another 350 miles to San Jose. I had no back pain and it was certainly not torture.

The Prius is such a crappy car that it was CR's top car for owner satisfaction 5 years in a row (Best and worst in new car owner satisfaction: Car owner, auto shopping). "Ninety-three percent of Prius owners who responded said they would definitely buy or lease one again. "

Toyota Prius Touring Tops Consumer Reports First Ever Best New-Car Value List: Consumer Reports http://pressroom.consumerreports.org/pressroom/ the touring version was named best overall value.

I'm a car enthusiast and err, a 1/10 for an "enthusiast" score is way too low and out of line. Many here on PC are Prius enthusiasts and certainly wouldn't give it a 1 either.

 

Would a person who travelled across the globe, 14 hours over the Pacific plus a 1.5 and 3 hour connecting flight either end and a 4 hour each way drive just to see the new model of his favourite car be considered an enthusiast? I did just that!
How about a guy who has driven his Prius on 3 journeys that exceed 3000 km each way in the last 2 year? Twice alone and once with his family.
I'm a paid up member of the Sporting Car Club, does that make me an enthusiast?
How about a group of people who spend a significant amount of their leisure time on a car related website, a Prius site. A site with 49734 members!

Who defines what a car enthusiast is and what appeals to an enthusiast.

I'll add to this I get excited about my 1968 Toyota Crown which would record a 1/4 mile time which exceeds 20 seconds and handles like a wet sponge. I'm still an enthusiast.

 

600 miles each way on a 4-day weekend= no back pain and the music was fine. Very little noise too, even with the 25 mph wind I was driving into. There was no zigging or zagging even with that wind. Best cruise control I've experienced (in 37 years of driving). Maybe not quite as comfortable, quiet or unfazed by the wind as my 90 Cadillac Sedan DeVille was, but close enough.

Of course, driving skills and drivers differ.

 

[FONT=&quot]
You probably drove the NHW20, 2004-09 model. But if you'll let us know the rental company, we'll be happy to call and ask if we can rent a 2010 Prius. This would solve a problem of getting a 2010 for an extended test drive.

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
Your height and weight? Any pre-existing medical problems?

As a general rule, driven at the speed limit, the Prius is very quiet. But Georgia speeds on under inflated, new tires, on a concrete highways, it can be pretty noisy.

Bob Wilson
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I drove an 08 model rented through Thrifty from San Jose to LA and back. Nightmare. And btw Ive never drove the 2010. But if the 2010 is anything close to that one I really think Toyota's marketing is amazing to get all this hype and all these 'Prius huggers' anxiously awaiting the 2010 while loving their <2010. Im sure Toyota management gets up every morning and laughs for about an hour before they start working.

CWERDNA - I have enough friends, I dont need to make them here and I dont think its relevant to this discussion. I couldn't be bothered to read your entire post cause it was boring so i skipped to the last sentence -> I'm a car enthusiast and err, a 1/10 for an "enthusiast" score is way too low and out of line. Many here on PC are Prius enthusiasts and certainly wouldn't give it a 1 either. You and the "many here" are entitled to their opinions just like anyone else. I think 1/10 enthusiast rating is a complement for the Prius.

 

thanks for insinuating that most of us here, including me, who love our prius and love to share that love through this site, are idiot sheep who have been fooled for many years and multiple (in some cases) prius purchases.

i appreciate you coming here to tell us that.

 

Sounds like most of it was I-5. I've not had occasion to take that route but some of our California drivers have often mentioned it. Many of us have found the rental companies seem to like 'soft tires,' which has some impact on noise. When I drove to and from HybridFest last year, I was surprised at the amount of tire-road noise between Chicago and Madison WI.

As soon as I hit the 'softer' interstates, the noise went away. It really was annoying. Also, I have to be careful to make sure all windows are fully closed. Tire-road? Wind?

I picked up a nail last weekend and when I took it to Firestone, I bought the lifetime, wheel alignment service. One thing we noticed is the 2010 has more 'caster' than the NHW20. This tends to improve steering stability, tracking. Since I still have our 2003 Prius, I can tell the 2010 tracks better. But then I like nearly zero toe and camber.

It is good that you had a chance to rent the car first instead of buying and becoming unhappy. I'm shaped a little different and the Prius fits both me and the wife. So we're pretty happy. As for Car and Driver, we don't subscribe and I've never seen anything in the news stand versions to interest me. I can't complain about what I don't read anyway.

GOOD LUCK!
Bob Wilson

 

Certainly, the 2004-2009 Prius is not everyone's 'cup of tea'. It has compromises in some conditions -

power - climbing a very steep freeway grade at 55 mph - not everyone wants to hear a wee little motor working pretty hard.

Acceleration - ooohhh, fairly tepid compared to many vehicles.

Call me simple, but I like to look at HP to curb weight - Gen2 is .037
Gen3 is .044 , regular Honda Civic - .049 .... many cars are .050's and above can outrun a Prius. But, we're on public roads, not racetracks.

It's a trade off when averaging 50+ MPG, filling up on 8 gallons/400 miles.

seating - IMO, the driver's seat stinks!! in the Gen2 car. Then again, I'm taller than 98% of people roaming the planet. The seat 'fixed up' very well for me though

---------------
Road noise? Not bad IMO. On rough pavement, sure it's loud, but overall fairly quiet. Not with you there.

Stability - Can't answer about high crosswind conditions. haven't been there.

Purchase cost Aug, 2008 - Ewwww, too much!

 

btw, Johnny,

The 2010 is much improved over the 2008 in key areas - power, seating and handling.

No kidding, go try one of those.

 

I took I-5 for my San Jose <-> LA drive and a >125 miles each way of my San Jose <-> Vegas drives The road noise isn't too bad.

I suspect if I drove up in WA state, I'd hear a lot more noise as the highways there are louder from personal experience w/my Z and former 02 Maxima.

I'm not terribly surprised at johnnyp500's attitude given his previous posts which I scanned before my earlier reply.

 

I have a 2009 Car and Driver buyer's guide

Here's some cars they love -

Bugatti Veyron convertible - $2,200,000 - 10 stars!
Dodge Viper - 9 stars
....
Regular Honda Civic - 6 stars

--------
I think C&D likes to hit racetracks or backroads. If they like how it handles / performs, gets high marks vice versa.

They just didn't find the 2009 Prius exciting. That's ok. Lots of people like having a 1/2 electric car. I do ....

C&D gave the Tesla Roadster .......... 9 stars!!

btw, mention the consumer appeal too - 2009 Prius 7/10 stars :typing:

 

C&D is useless as a resource for real people driving on real roads. It's entertainment.

 

They said some good things in the buyer's guide

highs - " ... quiet, well built, mid 40's MPG's ... green badge of honor (that's a slap)"

lows " big money for a small car, can get good mileage for less" I agree quite a bit - $27k + TTL last Summer. Pretty big money.

C&D is a mix of some useful comments and entertainment.

 

Please stop commenting on my friend situation and my attitude and lets keep the conversation on the Prius. I dont need a personal lash out every time I state an opinion Thanks.

Back to the subject:

cycledrum, I will absolutely try the new prius but the reason I didnt wait for the 2010 to come out before purchasing a car was that from research Ive done it is said that the plug-in will be coming in 2011 and I'd rather wait until it does. From my understanding the 2010 Prius adresses a lot of the past issues such as comfort and road noise and I would be very happy to try it now that I can compare it to the old Prius.

with regards to car and driver I read a lot of their issues over the years even before the internet era and after owning some of the cars they reviewed I can say no matter how good or bad of a review, in the end its how you feel in that vehicle and what you think about it. Its nice to read the 'professional' review but it doesnt matter how high of a score it gets, if you sit in it, drive it, and hate it then who cares what C&D sayd. You always have the right to disagree with car and driver losing all respect for a good magazine because it has a different opinion than yours... debatable :-D

 

What do you expect given the attitude of your recent and past posts complete w/lashing out and misinformation (such as http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-iii...y-2010-prius-huge-prius-fan-3.html#post845512)? You come to a board where people most people here like the Prius and there are a fair # of Prius enthusiasts.

I subscribe to C & D and I generally like the magazine. As for "good magazine" many here will disagree and question their objectivity given that they're advertiser supported. As asked earlier, why does anyone need to have any "respect" for C & D or any magazine? C & D is arguably a bunch of BMW fan boys and to a lesser extent, Honda.