maintenance

To be fair, "people" aren't even having this problem with the 2001. On this board, there are anecdotal reports of two individuals who have suffered "transmission" failure. With apologies to the individuals going through the experience, their numbers are statistically insignificant.

I know of no major out-of-warranty failures for 2002 or later vehicles. All in all, the Prius is a very reliable and inexpensively maintained vehicle.

 

At least one of these cars was purchased used. There is no way of knowing what abuse it may have been subjected to by the prior owner(s).

 

As far as battery cost, there is no battery cost. I have read in the forums of one individual having to replace a battery and paying, however Toyota picked up a good portion of the cost of that replacement. And that particular driver seems satisfied with the outcome of that service. But one individual having a battery replaced vs. almost nobody else out there having any battery issues pretty much means that this is a non-issue.

The PSD is a grapefruit sized planetary gear set. Unlike a true automatic where there are valves and pressure sensors and all kinds of linkage, the PSD simply turns and the inputs from the ICE and MGs determine the rpm which is transmitted through the final drive to the wheels. This is an even more simple construct than a manual transmission.

What is really up here with the posts you have read is one particular driver who is being held up by an unscrupulous dealer who performed unnecessary service to the Prius, and those services were probably not completed properly which then caused the vehicle to fail. The dealer is probably at fault for any issues here, not the vehicle or its engineering.

The problem with message boards is that the negative posts are very negative because they are almost always worst case scenario, and they are posted by one individual having that problem looking for support. However, I'm not online posting every day saying how wonderful an experience I'm having with my Prius. That just wouldn't make sense.

 

I thought he had the whine and power loss before he had the maintenance done.

 

There was a young lady who was helped into finding a used HV battery for her boyfriend's classic. It had 240K on it and was low in power and low in MPG due to the HV battery not holding an adequate charge.
She found one from salvage for $1800. I think the whole thing cost $2400, with $200 dead HV bounty (rebate).

 

Dan- I remembered that as less than a thousand for the battery from a wrecked car on E-bay

 

This reminds me of the infamous Toyota oil sludging problem. Folks who had their Toyota serviced at their Toyota dealer *and* followed the "recommended" oil change interval ended up with ruined motors due to sludging.

If I recall, out of perhaps several million Sienna V6, Lexus V6, and Camry V6 and 4 cylinder vehicles, maybe 4,000 had a problem. That is also statistically "insignificant." Unless you happen to be one of those 4,000 folks with a ruined motor.

It's entirely likely that had those owners ran an ACEA rated motor oil, IOW a full synthetic with strong detergents, they never would have had a problem. The average crap API "Starburst" oil isn't all that good, but you would think the manufacturer would tailor the oil change recommendation to the oil used.

Oh, wait a minute, they *did* modify the oil change recommendations. Maximum is now 6 months or 5,000 miles. My 1990 4Runner had a max of 12 months or 7,500 miles.

Caveat Emptor: buyer beware.

I know with my former 2000 GMC Sierra, even with receipts I was SOL when it came to getting them to pay for the FUBAR'd "drum in hat" parking brake assembly. It actually caused a seal leak that ruined the shoes.

I had even had the service writer document "customer suspects rear axle seal leakage" on many occasions when I was in for the "routine" 6 month parking brake adjustment.

Their response: "minor seepage, normal."

In the end I got into a major pi**ing contest with GMC, and they only reimbursed me when I threatened to take them to small claims and SUE them. What idiots, I'll never buy another GM product ever again.

In the end I really don't think it matters what brand you buy. If you service it yourself you're setting things up for a *major* cluster f*** if anything does go wrong.

Even if you have the dealer service it, document *everything* and make sure to get them to document things they conveniently "forgot."

 

With the "sludging" problem, didn't Toyota cover everything if the owner could show they had a minimum of 1 oil change per year regardless of mileage?

Thanks,
Shawn

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TucsonPrius\";p=\"87662)</div>

Shawn:

It's still on a per-case basis. Remember that folks were following their *recommended* service interval.

My 1990 4Runner had a maximum interval of 12 months or 7,500 miles. Now it appears almost every Toyota sold has a 6 month / 5,000 mile maximum interval.

I believe if folks ran an ACEA-rated motor oil (A1/A3/A5, B4-02, etc) then it would be highly unlikely that a 1 year / 10,000 mile interval would cause problems. Here in North America Toyota cannot legally require owners to run a "better" oil. As it stands, thanks to minimum API standards, Toyota is in CYA mode.

In a case like this, I stand behind what I said as I have been through it a few times: it turns in to a major cluster f*** and you usually end up with the threat of Small Claims or actually in Small Claims.

Even now Toyota still blames the owner, not any potential "defect" in the motor.

Jay

 

Hmm,

I did a quick search and it turns out I was wrong. For certain models, Toyota, apparently, doesn't even require proof of a single oil change to cover the sludging problem. It's covered for eight years, regardless of mileage.

See http://www.corolland.com/sludge.html

Now this is not to say that it wasn't difficult for the initial people to get coverage; I'm sure it was a nightmare with the dealers and Toyota initially claiming lack of maintenance on the owner's/lessee's part, and the owners having to threaten to sue to get coverage, but I did want to post this link so people can see Toyota's current policy.

Thanks,
Shawn

 

Gee,Jay,what sludging? Toyota engines sludging, :roll: . Don't know what you are talking about, .

Back to the original post, the Prius has been a very reliable vehicle. I have not had any major problems with them other then a few SSC's on the early one and a couple on the later ones. Compare this to many domestics and the Prius stands out as a great buy. Yes there maybe a few cases of some major problem,but they are few and far between. I would not worry about buying one based on internet message board posts of problems. Just check out how many and the circumstances involved and that will tell the whole story. :wink:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(rick57\";p=\"88081)</div>

I purchased new a 1990 Toyota 4Runner V6 SR5 4x4 5spd, a very nice unit. In 1998 the dealer I purchased it from suggested I bring it in to have the head gaskets replaced, on their nickle.

Since I had the cooling system flushed every 3 years, I doubted there would be a problem, but brought it in anyway.

The mechanic called me later that day after he had the heads off and wanted me to drive down and look at them. Why not? So I did. He was astounded, so was every other mechanic there.

See, the 4Runner had around 300,000km on it at that point. The heads were *spotless* and the cylinder bores had no taper whatsoever.

They couldn't believe it. It looked like the motor only had 50,000km on it, not 300,000km. I went the the back of the truck and got out a spare jug of motor oil: Mobil Delvac 1 5W-40.

For most of its life, it ran on either Delvac 1 or Mobil 1, depending on weather conditions. Canadian winters before Mobil 1 0W-30 came out, it ran in winter on Esso XD-3 0W-30. In the case of Delvac 1 or Esso XD-3, both are heavy duty diesel motor oils.

I only changed the oil once a year, the filter every 3-5 months. The results speak for themselves. I'm almost positive that had those Toyota owners ran a high quality synthetic, the sludge wouldn't have happened.

Even if you have a coolant leak (Blown gasket) a synthetic oil is highly resistant to making sludge. Get more than a few drops of ethylene glycol near a conventional cheap 5W-30 with heavy polymer additives, and watch the sludge grow.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(rick57\";p=\"88081)</div>

I agree 100% on that. When you compare the Prius to something like a Chevy Cavalier, Ford Focus, or Dodge Neon (Ugh!) there is no comparison. Overall it appears about as reliable as the Corolla and the Echo Hatchback, which is saying a lot.

Jay

 

just a quick note on oils.... i used good grades of quaker state in several cars, and when i added magnetic drain plugs, every oil change had a bit of "fur" on the magnet, and sometimes metal flakes big enough to see and feel.

when i switched to the same viscosity Castrol GTX, the fur disappeared.

disappeared.

there are differences!

 

Yes, I believe that.

I mostly work in industrial process control, and have a chance to snoop around maintenance shops at large mills. You'd be surprised how quickly most mechanics engage in spirited conversation if you happen to show a genuine interest in their job.

One mill I was at, around 20 years ago, they had just finished a test run on logging trucks running Mobil Delvac 1 5W-40. This is a synthetic heavy duty motor oil. The mechanic used something like a giant copper tube cutter to cut the can off a bypass oil filter, to inspect the filter.

He even used a magnet to run along the oil-soaked filter pleats to see if he could pick up any specks, which he didn't. He claimed the filter had been in service for 6 months and around 90,000km. The filter pleats looked pretty clean to me.

He then took the oil bypass filter from a truck in for routine servicing. I think the truck had around 3 months and 40,000km on the oil, a conventional heavy duty 15W-40. The filter pleats looked black and sludgy, and there was what I assumed to be grit in the oil. Actually, it was metal shavings, the magnet became hairy with them.

I then asked the mechanic what the filter would look like if the motor had run the same kind of 10W-30 (5W-30 was only used as a winter oil back then) as my car did. He laughed and claimed the truck motor would have blown up.

From that point on, I stopped using regular motor oils and ran either heavy duty diesel oils, or synthetic oils. That's why I'm such a big fan of Delvac 1 5W-40, that stuff works.