Buying used Prius

How mucho have you got to spend? I see a continual ad for an 04 (probably low pkg model) here in NY for about 20k.

 

I have a 2001 with 74k miles purchased new. The only early bugs I know concern the tires and the electrical power steering system.

The faulty tires had a "CHA" identifier on the sidewall and are certainly not any longer in use. Mine was manufactired in July 2001 and came with the (improved) "JDH" tires. There is a more general concern about the Bridgestone Potenza tires (standard on US model from 2001-2003), that they wear rapidly at the Toyota specified inflation. Many have found adequate tire life (30k miles or more) with higher inlfation oressures.

The power steering issue was address by Toyota extending the warranty on that assembly to 5 years, no mileage limitation for 2001 through early 2002 model year Prius. This implies a cutoff at a particular VIN number, which I don't know. If I were looking at a particular 2002 to buy I would want to know if it's within the range.

There is a special service campaign "SSC 40G" to modify the high-voltage battery, covering 2001 through mid-2003 model year. So here again the implication is that there was a hardware change at some point.

If you do buy a used one, you are advised to know what's up with both of these issues.

Based on ebay sales (of 2001-2003), you could guesstimate a price with my handy formula. $16,800 - 7.3 cents per mile driven. This will get you within a couple of $thousand. But I would not by any car on ebay without an independent inspection. Asking prices on a car lot would be higher, no doubt. www.kellybluebook.com is another source of price estimates.

The increase in fuel economy came with the 2004 model redesign, and is 7 mpg more in the "EPA combined" rating. The mpg database at www.greenhybrid.com is one source of real-world data.

Suggest you take a close look at both models early in your search.

I have not the NAV system, so no comment on that.

 

Tochatihu's information is excellent.

In addition to the big-money items he/she listed, you should obtain a complete service record from the previous owner and verify that all service campaigns have been completed. There have been several TSBs and SSCs for the older cars (mainly routine stuff); a few of these involve the Hybrid ECU, which is NOT reprogrammable in the classic Prius. This means if you require an ECU upgrade, either you or Toyota must buy a new one.

I don't understand your question about the navigation system. Could you be a little more clear?

 

I'm also considering buying second hand Prius, as the new one is out of (financial) range. I'm in the Netherlands and a 2001 model comes to about 13000-14000euro, depending on the mileage. However, besides the inital investment there are also maintenance costs. Currently I drive an Alfa Romeo 33 (which I enjoy very much and will keep it for sure ) and it is sooooo cheap to maintain. Most things I can fix myself and the spare parts are also very, very affordable. Can someone tell me how are the maintenance expences of a Pri? I can imagine that the high-tech solutions make DIY-repairs difficult; also fooling around with some systems could make you loose the warranty on the car and the hybrid system in particular, right? So what do I really need to have done by Toyota Service on a regular basis and could you give me any idea of the costs? Are there also any special things to pay attention when buying Classic Prius, besides the remarks elsewhere in this thread?

Thanks!

Marcin

 

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I assume that BPM is a tax of some sort, what do the initials stand for? Is it similar to VAT?

 

BPM is a luxury-tax. It stands for "Tax for private cars and motors". For every car or motor that is first registered in the Netherlands you pay this (so every new and every imported used car).
For a new Prius it would be € 7660,- but the Prius is free from BPM because of the low emissions. For a second-hand Prius it would have been a percentage of € 7660,- (for a 2001 Prius still several thousands of euro's).

We also have the normal tax, BTW. BTW is also charged over everything you buy. When you import a foreign car you only have to pay this when the car is (almost) new. When it is less than 6 months old, or it drove less than 6000 km, you also have to pay BTW.
So a used Prius over 6 months, you pay nothing, except several hundreds of euro's for having it checked and all the paperwork.
I don't know VAT, so I don't know which tax is more like it.

edit: I was just told that VAT = BTW

 

i must aplaud the netherlands for the steps they have taken to make a Prius a desirable car to own. something that i think this country has failed to do and miserably. i cant help but feel that if it were american companies doing the Prius, things would be hugely different.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DaveinOlyWA\";p=\"87738)</div>

Applaud? Hmmmm.....

Let's see, the Netherlands charges a huge BTW (aka VAT) tax on all new cars and even ALMOST new imports, regardless of whether or not it's a hybrid. Isn't VAT 17.5%?

So they nicely drop the already phenomenally outrageous BPM of €7660 prorated based on car age, not sales value. That currently translates into US$9,812.

In the US, we currently get a modest $2,000 ATI, effectively a tax deduction for all, that may possibly (I think probably) become a $1,000 tax credit. Various states around the country are stepping up to the plate with various incentives, including Connecticut since October 2004 which waives sales tax for the purchase of a new hybrid. At 6% CT sales tax for a $25,000 car, that's a solid $1,500 savings.

Thankfully we don't have anywhere near the obscene taxes that the Netherlands already has in the first place so that they can appear to be so "generous" by not applying an nearly $10,000 per car tax selectively and yet, still charging the full new car sales tax of 17.5%.

Unless of course, you are advocating for a US national sales tax of $10,000 per non-hybrid vehicle?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mieke\";p=\"87726)</div>

Sorry, I should have realized that the acronym varies with the language and written that VAT stands for Value Added Tax.

 

Yes, the taxes here are outrageous, but we're used to it .
A new Prius (standard edition) is about 26500 euro, that is BTW/VAT included and without BPM/luxury tax offcourse. This makes it not much more expensive than other non-hybrid cars that are comparable with Prius, because those cars do get the BPM added.

If you compare to Germany, the price of a new Prius is much like the price in the Netherlands, but other cars are a lot cheaper, because there no car has this luxury tax. This makes the Prius much more expensive than comparable non-hybrid cars. I guess that's why they are so impopular there. The Toyota dealer was very happy to sell me the 2001 Prius!

To prevend people buying their cars in countries where cars are less expensive because of no luxury tax, we also have to pay this tax when importing a foreign car. The amount is based on age and the price of a new comparable car. The older the car, the less you pay.
Only when it is over 25 years old, you don't have to pay BPM at all. Or when it is a Prius

 

AnOldHouse, i stand by my statement. if this country had been doing that and rolling the money into a mass transit system, we would probably had been much better off. however my statement was directed towards the netherlands and i cant see how it could possibly translate into the situation here.

one of the biggest obstacles to many getting a Prius (besides availability) is the extra cost because of the hybrid complexity. if the US did something similiar, then the added cost would have been recouped immediately.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DaveinOlyWA\";p=\"87878)</div>

I can't disagree about investments in good mass transit...in places where it would make sense. That is, mid to large metro areas. Not a good solution for most areas of the country, however.

Actually, your original statement was directed at not only "applauding" the efforts of The Netherlands but also to immediately direct it to what you "think this country [US] has failed to do and miserably." My point, is that their taxation scheme is so outrageous to even allow what appears on the surface to be a $10,000 benefit. Even Mieke who lives in The Netherlands agrees that the taxation there is outrageous.

So, you feel the US policies have failed, and miserably. Fine. I've not said the US has done a stellar job in this area either. Other than mass transit, in those areas that it would be appropriate, what would you suggest that the US should be doing in regards to this issue, if not impose a severe $10,000 tax on new automobiles, only to preferentially exempt certain classes of vehicles, which are already scarce as evidenced by the waiting lists for hybrids? A scheme, you "applaud"?

 

i guess i need to clarify that when i said the US was failing in promoting the new technology, i am refering to the fact that they commissioned the big 3 to create a 5 passenger vehicle that got 80 mpg. the big 3 complied in 2000 all three introducing prototype diesel-electric hybrids that got between 72 to 80 mpg.

http://priuschat.com/forums/album_pic.php?pic_id=799

this project was started before Toyota had started development of the Prius. in fact, Toyota asked if they could be included in the project and were refused. that is what i mean about the US failing miserably in promoting the technology. ok so maybe diesel anythings arent the way to go, but with that technology being developed, i think a good working gas-electric would have been on the market by now. instead, we have nothing... and if it werent for Toyota taking the lead on hybrid technology, we probably would still have nothing

 

to Mieke: thanks for the tips! I'll have a look at your website. Last week I did a test drive in a 2001 Pri, and I'm quite convinced I want to get one.

to all about the taxes: the main problem here in the Netherlands is the fact that Holland is a tiny country. If the cars would be as cheap to buy and drive as in the US, it probably would be impossible to drive them, because the roads would be completely jammed (they are almost completely jammed already now). B.T.W. (by the way :lol: ), the list of taxes aiming at the car owners is impressive:
- BPM (already mentioned)
- owner's tax (Dutch: houderschapsbelasting, if you own a car you pay a certain amount of money every month, doesn't matter if you use the car or not)
- additional duty on the fuel: regular unleaded gas is sold here for about 1.25 euro per liter ($6.10 per U.S. gallon)
- they are planning to start a new tax system in 2009, where you pay per driven kilometer. The government says, that all the other taxes will be cancelled then...

Cheers,

Marcin

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mieke\";p=\"87763)</div>

In Finland, base price is 39.800 euro. With winter tyres and few extras, it's about 42.000€

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dontcheff\";p=\"88163)</div>

Wow, that's a lot. Are all cars that expensive, or only Prius?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mieke\";p=\"88224)</div>

Wow, that's a lot. Are all cars that expensive, or only Prius?[/b][/quote]

All cars are expensive. It's due tue a state tax.

 

you think 170,000 km for 13,500 cnd is a good price for an 01 prius?