Cars on used or new car lots are not registered for use on the road so they wouldn't qualify. You would have to buy your clunker from a private party and check that the registration is current. Most of those old cars rotting in someone's backyard or barn won't qualify either as most people don't keep current registration on non-running cars. Changes that I would like to see: A minimum age for the vehicle. An earlier version required the "clunker" to be made prior to 2000. Higher MPG requirements for the new vehicles. (25 mpg for cars / 20 mpg for trucks) Vouchers only given to those that have owned the vehicle prior to 1-Jan-2009
I am curious. What is the dealer supposed to do with the "clunker" once the deal is done? Do these get cars get scraped ?
Relax. There's plenty of other ways to get a handout. Do you own a home? Just stop paying your mortgage.
Yes based on the bills above it looks like you would be able to take your car to an authorized salvage yard that would verify eligibility, certify to the government that it had been destroyed and then issue you a voucher to take to the dealer . If you go directly to the dealer, (they must be participating in the program), the dealer would also be required to certify that it had been disposed of. They would issue a voucher which they would immediately take back for a reduced price on the vehicle. One little snag is (as it stands) that not all dealers would be required to participate so better make sure you buy your new car from the right dealership or in exchange for your "clunker" you get a nice new government issued voucher to hang on your wall and not much else On a further note it looks like the salvage yard could sell off the parts but not the title, engine and drive train. All this is speculation at this point since there is no final bill and everything we have been talking about has been moved into the energy bill which may get defeated for other reasons. G
This is just the statue portion of the sausage making. If it passes, there will still be a rulemaking from the DoE which will establish the real regulations that the program will operate under. The statute serves as a guideline for the regulation. Looking at HR 520, while it lays out how the program would operate, there is a loophole that basically allows the Secretary to write whatever regulations they want (see Sec. 3 (g)). Many of the limitations/clarifications you're discussing could probably be written into the rulemaking portion instead of the statute. You don't need votes for rulemaking, so it's a lot easier to get a bill through Congress that is just a broad framework, and then fill in the details later after the lobbyists can't get at it (they still can influence rulemaking, but it's more difficult). HR 1550 doesn't have this clause, but the other two proposals do.
If you take advantage of the program, the only one you should whine to about the negative unintended consequences is staring you in the mirror. Grow up, damn it, and take some responsibility for your actions.
It is interesting that the people venting the loudest about perceived government fraud seem to also be the first who will be in line to buy a clunker, if they are allowed, to take advantage of the public trust...
I got a great program. How about giving the $4500 off to current Prius or hybrid owners when they trade their car in for a new Prius. Then use the trade in hybrids for the people who have clunkers and sell them for below book value. Why should the polluters get rewarded ? We should reward the current hybrid owners for be green by letting them have the discount.
I'm just waiting to see what the real rules on this are...it's still a bit muddy, at best. I'm pretty sure my 'clunker' won't qualify, but I'll keep my fingers crossed anyway.
I think there some kind of politics going on here. My guess is their intention is to reward cars like big old Cadillac owner rather than fuel efficient Toyota or Honda ownrs. And they set minimum MPG for new vehicle at 22 so that that Cadillac owner can buy another Cadillac. I can see political motivation here. I think this is about rewarding owners of large clunkers which I think tend to be American cars, IMHO. This is favoring american cars in disguise, IMHO. For Canadain version cash for clunkers, they do not have this limit and conecntrate on MPG savings only like you mention. They have a web site that you can input any old car and new car and get possible amount of voucher. For example, if I turn in my 1994 Honda Accord, and buy 2009 Prius, I woud get $2500. If I get new Honda Accord, I would still get $750 (which is lower than the market value of the 1994 Honda.) In Japan, they just have very simple version of this program: if your car is 13+ year old, you get $2500.
Hey where is that coming from. I'm just trying to be funny. But on the serious side I sure as HELL will pay for it down the road whether I take advantage of it now or not. So damn right I am going to take my $4500 and bitch about it too. edit: no not really bitch but make fun of it. Get a sense of humor and it might add a couple years to your life. G
G, Thanks.... I think that was directed at me as well. A couple trying-to-be-funny posts. I was debating whether to rsp to the chiding in SageBrush's note. I agree - time to lighten up a bit. And say.........."Excuuuuuuuse me...."
Sorry guys -- I missed the funny. Unfortunately, there are *way* too many people who rationalize poor citizenship by saying "everybody else is doing it", and then blame the gubmint instead of taking personal responsibility for their actions. It is indeed a sore spot with me.
No problem, and thanks. Misunderstandings are common with one dimensional communications - same thing that happens in marriages. whoops - kidding.
Ok now I feel bad for my "get a sense of humor comment". Thanks Sage for bringing it back down to earth.
Does anybody have any idea when a final version would be set? Someone asked if this a stimulus bill, or an environmental bill. Here are my views on the economy. Feel free to disagree. Imagine our economy is a giant pinball machine. The dollar you spend is the ball. It needs to bounce off the different bumpers, and you need to use your flippers to keep the ball in play. I buy American whenever possible. Why am I shopping for a Prius? I said when possible. A huge percentage of our consumer good are made in China. I'm not cooking on, and eating off something that may have lead in it, but more importantly. Nothing affects my income more than other people having good paying jobs, and the money stays in America. Going from one person, to another, to another. Gas is the other problem. The Democrats, and Republicans will not agree to their death on the way to fix it. Either drill more, or use less. Don't want to start a debate on that, and lead this more off topic. The thing is more dollars don't stay in America. If this is not changed, either partie's way of stimulating the economy will not work. It's only temporary until the money runs out. Then the economy needs to be stimulated again. Sooner or later you run out of quarters. I can imagine the "world economy" working as a giant pinball machine, if somebody, anybody would buy our stuff.
Repeating the question to make sure it doesn't get lost in the flashy lights of the pinball machine. When this bill gets signed (and the terms of it) will definitely determine whether I trade in or take a voucher.
All these bills have been referred to committee with no further action currently scheduled. While the House committee did release a 'fact sheet' and claimed they had come to an agreement, I didn't see any Senators publicly on board with that agreement. Also Waxman indicated this would be part of a larger climate change bill.. that bill is far from ready, and will be a gigantic fight. I wouldn't hold your breath.
Of course there is politics going on, the bill is being created by politicians. Personally I suspect the minimum is set at 22 mpg combined so that all manufacturer's mid-sized sedans would qualify. Volvo S60 ---------- 22 mpg VW Passat ---------- 23 mpg Ford Fusion --------- 23 mpg Mazda 6 ------------- 24 mpg Honda Accord ------ 24 mpg Chrysler Sebring --- 24 mpg Hyundai Sonata ---- 25 mpg Toyota Camry ------ 25 mpg Nissan Altima ------ 26 mpg Chevy Malibu ------- 26 mpg (No Cadillac gets 22 mpg combined BTW.)
It seems for the current Prius owners to qualify, they will have to downgrade to a gas guzzling clunker and then upgrade to the 2010 Prius.
