Zero Point Energy ZPE - Opening a Path Beyond Fossil Fuel

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tempus\";p=\"85018)</div>

Sorry - this is not a demonstration of "cold" fusion. It's a demonstration of a cleverly small neutron source which can drive real fusion. It looks more interesting as a source for neutron imaging than for power plants.

 

Re: Zero Point Energy ZPE - Opening a Path Beyond Fossil Fue

I, for one, am investing all my points in Zero Point Energy, and if you want to get rich quickly like me, suggest you do the same.

Brad

 

Karmavore is hilarious but I don't even feel safe investing my points there. I would trade them to anyone who has a plug nickel they wanted to get rid of.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Overtone\";p=\"85580)</div>

Yes, they met no hazard. They also extracted no energy! They used the Casimir force but did not do W=Fx work to extract energy.

 

Re: Zero Point Energy ZPE - Opening a Path Beyond Fossil Fue

In honor of the relase of Tiger (MacOS 10.4):

"Keeping an open mind is a virtue - but as the space engineer James Oberg once said, not so open that your brains fall out"

and

"But the fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown."
--Butthead Astronomer

Those of you who follow Apple will know the reference.

I used to live in Marin County, which is adjacent to Sonoma County, where Sebastapol is located. I understand they smoke a lot of pot up there.

 

True. Some of them happen to be based on physics.

So I took up the suggestion to look into Pinto's work. According to the ISI citation database, Pinto has written a total of five papers on ZPE and the Casimir effect. Only one (Phys. Rev. B 60, 14740, 1999) has any citations. That paper proposes a scheme that, even if it were to be correct, involves an energy output of less than a billionth of a Joule per square centimeter for plates spaced around five atomic distances (10 angstroms) apart. Large area plates with sub-10-angstrom finish and flatness (e.g., superpolished mirrors) involve relatively thick substrates so that it is hard to imagine of a thickness of less than 1 mm for any practical device. In that case we're talking about the potential for getting ten billionths of a Joule of energy per cubic centimeter of a working device. Now compare that with gasoline, which releases 30 thousand joules per cubic centimeter, and you see that this is only about a million million times away from being a practical device.

 

For all the folks who aren't very familiar with the US patent process (this is most people on the planet), there is one very important fact to keep in mind when a would-be seller of snake oil uses the old ploy of "it's patented!" as proof of validity, integrity, and utility:

ANYONE can get a patent for ANY THING (or method), regardless of whether or not the thing (or method) actually works.

I'm feeling tautological:

The fact that a device or method is patented means nothing more than the fact that the inventor has applied for legal protection of his or her invention. The invention need not actually work, or even be based on reality, in order for a patent to be granted.

Before anyone starts quoting patent law back at me, I'll state that this is NOT how the patent system was intended to work. Ideally, each patent is reviewed for technical feasibility and adherence to reality ("Utility") by a competent scientist or engineer.

In reality, the US patent office is simply unable to effectively manage the enormous volume of patent applications that flood in yearly, and patents are loosely checked before being rubber-stamped. Infringing or unmeritorious patents may eventually be sorted out in court.

Even if the US patent office was able to adequately handle the volume of patents, their guidelines for utility are by neccessity rather lenient - statements in a patent application are presumed to be true unless unless the patent office can establish falsehood or deceit. The device has only to be 'more likely than not' to work. "Establishing falsehood" generally entails laboratory trials and the like, which equates to time and money, two resources the patent office has in short supply.

In the end, the burden of proof is on the US patent office, not the inventor. But don't take my word for it. Look it up yourself.

Other questionable and/or rather quacky patents:

5,989,178 - Method of using a magnetic ring (quack medical device)
6,004,596 - A crustless peanut butter and jelly sandwich
6,024,935 - Free energy method
6,362,718 - Free energy/perpetual motion machine
6,368,227 - Method for swinging on a (playground) swing

I'll admit the PB&J patent shows utility, but is rather questionable in the novelty department. Same goes for the swinging method. (These were submitted by Smuckers corp. and a 5-year old, respectively.)

We now return you to the free-energy advert already in progress...

 

FYI - British Aerospace ceased to exist in 1999

 

That's a stretch... A few publications, most with no citations? And Pinto's work at JPL was just on routine space probe navigation. The web site Interstellar Technologies Corp. uses the phrase "award-winning" - well, a few essay prizes from the Gravity Research Foundation is OK but not terribly significant.

I took at look at the real numbers that could be extracted from one paper and found it to be six orders of magnitude away from being interesting. The response to that has not been anthing solid but rather an "appeal to authority" and "it's secret right now" type answer. I agree that a quantitative demonstration with verification by independent scientists would be convincing. No such demonstration has yet been presented. The hallmark of good science and technology is when it can be reproduced by anyone with the appropriate equipment (which is why Pons and Fleichman were quickly discredited regarding cold fusion).

 

Re: Independent lab tests and a possible future scenario

OK, these are testable claims, even if the scientific plausibility is not established beyond "believe me." Recharging the standard battery pack in a Prius (much less an augmented one) involves the delivery of more than 4 million Joules of energy (6.5 amp-hours at 202 volts times 3600 seconds per hour), let's say in a time of no more than 8 hours. The device should deliver this amount of excess energy beyond what it draws or has stored from a wall plug or other power source (thus avoiding a frequent trick of claimed perpetual motion machines). Independent verification of the validity of the method by January 2005, and 4 million joules within 8 hours by May 2005.

My feeling is the same as it was in the early days of cold fusion: I really wish that it were to somehow turn out to be true, but I very much doubt it.

 

I'm sure you mean 2006, or else we're going to require time travel as well. Actually not a significant problem in this world of fantasy we're creating.

Why hasn't this been bumped to Fred's about 20 posts ago?

 

Re: Zero Point Energy ZPE - Opening a Path Beyond Fossil Fue

I'm curious Overtone - do you type one-handed, or do you put your crack pipe down when you make a post?

 

While ZPE currently fits into the heretical physics realm, and this thread really should be moved to FHOP, we should all still play nice and avoid personal attacks.