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Zero Point Energy ZPE - Opening a Path Beyond Fossil Fuel

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by Overtone, Apr 27, 2005.

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  1. Overtone

    Overtone New Member

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    The Zero Point Energy (ZPE) powered Hybrid Electric Vehicle (ZPE-HEV)

    Are we getting a glimpse of the future in the increasing number of Prius cars that have been converted to plug-in systems with added batteries? As many of you know, these plug-in hybrid electric vehicles get more than 100 mpg. Some exceed 150 mpg. City and town driving is done using electric power. These cars need refueling with gasoline only when driven long distances. Hybrids such as the Prius are popular. Moving toward a ZPE-HEV can be viewed as a logical next step.

    A NASA news release (3-30-05) states: “zero point energy,†a potentially bottomless sea of invisible, ultra-powerful energy…in the vacuum of space. Work involving the science and technology relating to this new energy source has surfaced in Germany, India, Japan, the U.K., and Russia, as well as the United States. Our company, Sebastopol, California based Magnetic Power Inc. (MPI), is one of several developing systems that converts Zero Point Energy (ZPE) to electricity. NASA data suggests that ZPE can provide far more than 20 times the energy available from solar energy, at any point on earth, 24/7. ZPE is an unlimited, renewable, largely unrecognized, potential source of electric power.

    Small generators, such as MPI is developing, could eliminate the need to plug-in a rechargeable hybrid. This would provide all the advantages without the need to plug-in to the utility grid. The result will be the first step toward driving automobiles, trucks and busses, without any need for gas or oil whatsoever.

    One MPI objective, anticipated by the end of 2005, is a 1 Kw pre-production prototype generator. One or two of these modules, installed in a HEV, would convert it to a ZPE-HEV. The first example of this new automotive power system could be on the road within 12 months.
     
    #1 Overtone, Apr 27, 2005
  2. DanMan32

    DanMan32 Senior Member

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    Re: Zero Point Energy ZPE - Opening a Path Beyond Fossil Fue

    You're posting a document marked CONFIDENTIAL on a public website?
     
    #2 DanMan32, Apr 27, 2005
  3. altaskier

    altaskier New Member

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    Re: Zero Point Energy ZPE - Opening a Path Beyond Fossil Fue

    Sorry, but I don't think zero point energy is in the cards; the second law of thermodynamics discourages it. See for example Marvin Gardner on zero point energy.
     
    #3 altaskier, Apr 27, 2005
  4. rookie

    rookie New Member

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    Yay, that would be cool if true. Heck, if it is - we'll figure the conversion kit and yank the the ICE out :) LOL
     
    #4 rookie, Apr 27, 2005
  5. xevious

    xevious New Member

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    Personally, I'd rather convert my Prius to antimatter-catalyzed nuclear pulse propulsion. That way, I figure I could go from L.A. to N.Y.C. in a few minutes and still get around 50 MMPUG (that's megameters per microgram).

    Of course, the risk of propulsion system-induced vaporization would be somewhat more tangible than that of EMF-induced cancer of the common sense. That's a bit of a downer.
     
    #5 xevious, Apr 27, 2005
  6. Sufferin' Prius Envy

    Sufferin' Prius Envy Platinum Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(xevious\";p=\"84890)</div>
    I hate to kill your buzz there, but that vehicle would never be allowed into civilian hands in the USA. It would be classified as a terrorist weapon. All you need is some nutcase willing to purposely crash that thing into a city or two. It would make 9/11 look like child’s play.

    The kinetic energy released would be catastrophic for several surrounding states. If it were a Hummer, it would probably take out all of North America. :eek:


    Unfortunately, I think the major technical defect in your design will be the inability to find four tires with the proper speed rating. :roll:
     
    #6 Sufferin' Prius Envy, Apr 27, 2005
  7. priusenvy

    priusenvy Senior Member

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    Re: Zero Point Energy ZPE - Opening a Path Beyond Fossil Fue

    That memo reads like the junk faxes I see littering the floor around the fax machine at work, touting penny stocks poised for "short term explosive growth".

    A legitimate company, engaged in R&D for a technology that has the possibility at bringing about revolutionary change in how we produce and distribute energy, would not hesitate to mention the names of the company principals (all of whom would be well known in their fields, associated with world-class universities or research arms of big companies, with a list of patents as long as your arm), and the names of its investors (who would be well known corporations, individual investors, and venture capitalists).

    Interesting also how someone chose to register today and make this their first post ever. Did that same message get spammed all over every hybrid car forum today?
     
    #7 priusenvy, Apr 27, 2005
  8. prberg

    prberg Member

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    Re: Zero Point Energy ZPE - Opening a Path Beyond Fossil Fue

    when I read the line 'every Nook and Cranny' I lost some 'faith' in this company. Hey sign me up... If they deliver that generator in 12 months... I will get one installed in my Prius. But I won't hold my breath.

    -Peter B
     
    #8 prberg, Apr 27, 2005
  9. rwlade

    rwlade Dr. Bob

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    Either he's trolling or has listened to the Art Bell Radio Show too often <g>
     
    #9 rwlade, Apr 27, 2005
  10. Overtone

    Overtone New Member

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    Re: Zero Point Energy ZPE - Opening a Path Beyond Fossil Fue

    The attachment is no longer confidential. I forgot to remove the word.

    The attachment mentions work by NASA, and the Defense Advanced Projects Agency (DARPA), which ought to indicate that converting Zero Point Energy for power and propulsion, as Aviation Week put it: is no longer science-fiction.

    Conversion of ZPE by Lucent's Bell Labs, for use in moving a tiny teeter-totter in MEMS chips, was announced in Nature in 2001. This work utilized the Casimir Force.

    See the Patents, issued and pending, by Fabrizio Pinto, formerly a physicist at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory, for the development of technology that claims to multiply the Casimir Force substantially in order to produce power.

    Magnetic conversion of ZPE, as with the Casimir Force work, does not release huge amounts of power that could be dangerous. Eventually, we expect such systems to be small enough to fit in an AA battery case for use in laptops. The largest module we presently project is 1 Mw. Pulling the engine out of a Prius and replacing it with an equivalent Magnetic Power Module ™ appears possible in about 24 months. Converting plug-in models can probably be prototyped in half that time.

    The only way we expect scientists and techies to believe these systems are possible is to make available Demonstration Devices and eventually toys. Demo Devices should be ready for licensing to manufacturers late this year. They will be made largely of transparent materials to preclude hidden batteries.

    The history of aviation might be useful to recall. A couple of bicycle mechanics opened an era. Most scientists did not believe they flew. Only after the President ordered an inquiry in 1908, five years after the first flight, did the scientific and technical community decide they really had flown.

    Skeptics are welcome. But, remember that: "A mind is like a parachute, it only works when it is open."
     
    #10 Overtone, Apr 27, 2005
  11. Torf

    Torf New Member

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    Re: Zero Point Energy ZPE - Opening a Path Beyond Fossil Fue

    Zero point energy is many generations away from mainstream, assuming it is even possible.

    Harnassing ZPE is like cold fusion, lightspeed travel, or teleportation.
     
    #11 Torf, Apr 27, 2005
  12. Tempus

    Tempus Senior Member

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    #12 Tempus, Apr 27, 2005
  13. Devil's Advocate

    Devil's Advocate Member

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    Re: Zero Point Energy ZPE - Opening a Path Beyond Fossil Fue

    this would be great then we would have all the power we need to fight the Goa'ulds and the Wraith !!!!!!!!!!!! :idea:
     
    #13 Devil's Advocate, Apr 27, 2005
  14. priusenvy

    priusenvy Senior Member

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    Re: Zero Point Energy ZPE - Opening a Path Beyond Fossil Fue

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Devil's Advocate\";p=\"85023)</div>
    That's what I was thinking! Didn't Colonel Carter travel to the future and bring one of these back through the Stargate??? Or did we deplete it to send that team to the Pegasus galaxy? :lol:
     
    #14 priusenvy, Apr 27, 2005
  15. priusenvy

    priusenvy Senior Member

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    Re: Zero Point Energy ZPE - Opening a Path Beyond Fossil Fue

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Overtone\";p=\"84987)</div>
    Sure, I believe you. You're just a PO box in a rural hick town (an exaggeration, but not by much) in Sonoma County, but you're going to do all that.
     
    #15 priusenvy, Apr 27, 2005
  16. hdrygas

    hdrygas New Member

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    Re: Zero Point Energy ZPE - Opening a Path Beyond Fossil Fue

    The first thougt I had was hold on to your wallet P T Barnum is back.
     
    #16 hdrygas, Apr 27, 2005
  17. Overtone

    Overtone New Member

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    Re: Zero Point Energy ZPE - Opening a Path Beyond Fossil Fue

    Magnetic Power Inc. has been doing R & D on ZPE since 1984, when the late Robert Forward, then a physicist at Hughes Aircraft, published a seminal paper in Physical Review suggesting ZPE could become a source of electric power.

    The firm has a subsidiary, Room Temperature Superconductors Inc., RTS, with a website: www.ultraconductors.com RTS was formed in 1993, to commercialize polymer materials that conduct electricty 100,000 times better than metals. Ultraconductors already have shown the capability to do almost everything a superconductor can do, at room temperature and well above. Three U.S. Patents have issued on these materials. A very large pending application will be split into at least five more. Together the two firms have completed four Small Business Innovation Research (SBIR) contracts on these materials, one of which was a Phase II.

    Three very large domestic firms have expressed serious interest in our ZPE work and could become Strategic Partners before the year is out. They are well equipped to assist with development from laptop battery replacement, to 1 Mw modules that can be linked to form power plants.

    MPI has engineers working on ZPE conversion modules in several domestic locations, as well as in the UK and Mexico.
     
    #17 Overtone, Apr 27, 2005
  18. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    Re: Zero Point Energy ZPE - Opening a Path Beyond Fossil Fue

    I certainly hope that such concepts as Cold Fusion and ZPE remain Science Fiction.

    If such concepts can be proven to work, then they imply fantastic energy density, certainly "unlimited" when applied to crude oil and conventional nuclear fission power. Why is that bad you ask?

    Consider the first hydrogen bomb was based on a "wet" design. It was detonated as part of Operation Ivy on Enewetak Atoll in 1952.

    The Ivy Mike device needed the liquid deuterium fuel in a cryostorage tank 80 inches wide and 244 inches long, with the tank walls 14 inches thick. The entire assembly weighed around 82 tons and had a 10 MT nominal yield.

    In 1954 Operation Castle was again in the Pacific at Bikini Atoll in the Marshall Islands. The Castle Bravo device was 180 inches long and 55 inches wide, and weighed "only" 23,500 lbs. A signficant weight savings came from using dry lithium deuteride.

    The nominal yield was 15 MT, more than 2.5 times expected nominal yield. A lot of the surprise came from the unanticipated boost in yield from interaction with tritium within the bomb. The use of tritium in nuclear weapons is known as "boosting."

    Eventually these devices, known as the "Runt" series, were scaled down to B-52 deliverable Mk 17 and Mk 24 bombs weighing under 8,000 lbs.

    By 1962 and Operation Dominic, a B-52 deliverable Mk 39 with a 3 MT nominal yield had a length of 48 inches, a width of 27 inches, and a weight of only 1,567 lbs. The Boosting principle of using tritium had realized enormous weight savings.

    Also interesting is that the Soviet Union developed a somewhat larger weapon with a 100 MT nominal yield, tested near Novaya Zemlya at a scaled-down 50 MT nominal yield. It caused complete destruction 25 km from ground Zero and blast overpressure damage almost 1,000km from ground Zero.

    So my point to all of this is that although extremely high density energy sources are promising and maybe even clean if properly applied, there is also potential for a disaster or terrorist act of unGodly proportions.
     
    #18 jayman, Apr 27, 2005
  19. Overtone

    Overtone New Member

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    ZPE and Cold Fusion have both been the subject of experiments in laboratories all over the world for some years without the dire effects mentioned above.

    The original Cold Fusion experiment by Pons and Fleishmann was reproduced six months later by Dr. Huggins Materials Science group at Stanford University. Numerous variations of Cold Fusion, now often called Low Energy Nuclear Reactions, have been under study all over the world. SRI International has reproduced several types, including the original experiment, many times. The U.S. Navy announced some months back that it has successfully been doing Cold Fusion experiments for 11 years. While it is not likely to run your car, or produce large amounts of power anytime soon, anyone interested in the subject can learn much more about it at the non-profit website: http://lenr-canr.org

    ZPE was harnessed in a 6 Kw generator by Hans Coler, supported by the German Navy during WWII. At the time, nobody could explain where the energy came from. The Post War British Intelligence report on his work has been declassified and is now readily available on the web.

    Magnetic systems, Coler's was such a system, tap only reasonably small amounts of the ZPE. They have been under study in numerous labs in several countries. There are a few patents such as those granted to Lucent, and to Dr. Fabrizio Pinto, that suggest there is far, far, less to fear from ZPE than from burning fossil fuels or generating nuclear power.
     
    #19 Overtone, Apr 27, 2005
  20. altaskier

    altaskier New Member

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    Re: Zero Point Energy ZPE - Opening a Path Beyond Fossil Fue

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Overtone\";p=\"84987)</div>
    The Bell Labs work can in no way be construed to be supportive of the extraction of large amounts of energy.

    A mind that is so open as to be like a sieve will allow all brain matter to leak. Critical thinking is a plus not a minus.
     
    #20 altaskier, Apr 29, 2005
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