Just bought a 2010 Insight, my review.

I don't understand your point behind this comment. A large, heavy, low power motor is not a badge of honor. Obviously the size and weight of a motor is not a direct representation of its power and torque. Some motors have higher power densities, some are more efficient, some last longer. What were you driving at with this comment?

Tom

 

Plenty of people claiming MPG in the 30s for their Prius...plenty of people claiming 60s lifetime combined MPG. Still others claim the IMA in the Civic can match a Prius all day in the MPG department. Sure depends on real world driving conditions. What the EPA testing does is even the field for even compares. All else remains an opinion and heresay. Not everyone hypermiles. Not even close. So a scientific test proves out the higher MPG vehicles.

I can't wait to drive a 2010 Insight. I can't wait to drive a 2010 Prius. Driving is believing. My 2005 Civic Hybrid test drive (as well as an earlier 2003 Civic Hybrid) caused me to buy a Prius. To each their own.

 

I have a friend who claims 42 mpg with his Saturn, regardless of weather. He also claims his sailboat is going 7 kts when we are sailing next to him doing 5. People's perceptions are highly suspect.

Tom

 

cool you should post your EV stats in your sig line!!

what a lot of people dont realize is how little HP you need to move. an electric motor has the advantage of 100% of its torque available over the entire RPM spectrum. that allows it be seemingly underpowered as compared to ICE which simply has to be wound up to perform.

granted, my Zenn is slow, underpowered etc.... does not do highway (dont really need it to) and it now has a 5 HP motor. it had a 7.5 HP motor upgrade and from 0-30 i could match up pretty well with most cars off the line but was not matched well with the charge system so went back to the standard motor.

as far as mileage claims by anyone, unless you track your mileage and every drop of gas thru at least 5 tanks, you are not qualified to quantify your mileage

 

I am well aware of hp needed to maintain 55 mph. For the Classic, it is about 15hp.

The bottleneck in the Insight regen brake is the 13hp generator. No matter how you cut it, you can't capture more than 13hp. Sure, 13hp maybe able to accelerate up to 55mph but how long will it take? 60-90 seconds? You can't wait that long when you need to stop. That's when 2.5x larger battery pack in the Prius comes in handy -- which I think is still not enough.

 

The reason FULL was coined all those years ago (remember, I was there) came from the ultimate ability of supporting a plug. A small electric motor without active cooling simply cannot be placed inro the same category... since it can't offer that. It's not the same.

That's why we shift focus over to MPG instead.

Start collecting real-world data, then share it with us. That's the telling story.
.

 

That is a clever feature. If I want to know if I'm driving correctly I have to glance down to the MFD in the Prius, something that was fixed in the 2010.

The little rewards and wreaths you get driving the Insight is too much for me though. How about a lollipop dispenser and a computer voice that says "Good boy/girl!"

Just teasing, it's a cool car.

 

Why doesn't Honda beef up their hybrid system? They have the technology. Look at the Asimo, they're a clever bunch. Was it perhaps affordability overriding technology?

 

Some neat info about the Insight. I was interested in purchasing one but, honestly, the butt ugly interior was my motivator to go to a Prius which I picked up last week.

Question - if the gas engine is running in the Honda, doesn't that mean that gas is being used up?

 

Wow, I am impressed with the depth and breadth of the info on this thread. Good stuff.

Obviously, we still have very strong convictions to overcome but that will certainly be done with time, friendly information sharing and experience.

However, I would like to make a suggestion to our more experienced Prius owners... just in case you go for a test drive on an 2010 Insight:

• Hang around an expert Honda IMA forum for a little bit and pick up on a few things before going for the test drive. If you do not and you have no significant seat time in a late gen IMA then you'll be missing quite a few bits and your experience will be seriously underwhelming.

Yes, you may also want to factor in the architectural differences and the human interface and how those impact the real world experience ... but if you do, I suggest you avoid referring to the Prius as a template and keep it off your mind for as long as possible.

...And, do not worry about the IMA platforms being a serious challenge to the HSD hegemony - they are not and they should not be, at least not until we inflate our hybrid ranks well beyond 5% of the market.
Frankly, I am tired of seeing worse than Tier 2-Bin 3 (and PZEV) cars on the road and it will take far more than what Totota and Honda can provide the break out of this nightmare sooner.

Cheers;

MSantos

 

IMA replaces the flywheel with a thin electric motor (between the gas engine and transmission). It is built on top of the existing traditional non-hybrid architecture.

They did make this electric motor more powerful but there is a limit to it as well, I guess. In the Accord hybrid (now discontinued), it is rated at 16 hp.

 

I drive an '01 civic hx cvt and have been considering a new hybrid. I recently test drove three hybrids: the '10 insight, '09 civic hybrid, and '09 prius. My general impressions weren't favorable towards the prius, that the civic was the best overall car, but the insight was arguably cooler.

The prius is a decent car with the best mpg but the driving felt detached, I couldn't get used to the center console and operations. Seats and wheel had limited adjustablility. It could have been that the lights were on or the settings were low but the display was ridiculously dim. The salesman didn't have any explanation for that. It was the roomiest of the three however. The civic was more responsive, traditional layout, the better rear view, but the trunk was tiny, no econ mode. The insight was compact (inside and out; the hard center back seat is the worst), the materials felt cheaper, but the driving experience was the better of the three. With econ mode and the ambient speedometer light, it did the best job for assisting the driver to save gas.

The insight does have idle-stop, but I didn't have the chance to experience it; the salesman didn't know anything about it or how to even change the information display. I read it's easier to achieve in econ mode with a/c turned off.

I've got higher expectations for the '10 prius though.

 

Salesman should know their cars better sometimes. I had that when I test drove Prius for the first time. I knew more about how the car worked. These guys must just spend an hour on the Internet reading. It's not hard.

 

These salesmen were very uniformed. The toyota one didn't even know exactly what "B" did. When asked, he thought it was for reverse or something. He was like "R is for reverse and B is for..... reverse." :lol: I laughed.

They're probably not very enthusiastic about their job or product.

 

Yet another example of the value of variety!

Though it sounds like you really prefer a more "traditional" layout, in terms of instrument panel, sedan styling, etc., I think you really should wait to drive the 2010 Prius before deciding which one is "better" (in your view, that is). The seats and steering wheel get added adjustments (and comfort!), the console is changed, the instruments have different positions and added information, the trunk and carrying capacity is even larger, the interior is more comfortable with more room, and the handling is much improved. You may disagree and not like the 2010 Prius as much, but it sounds like most of your complaints/issues have been addressed in the new generation of the Prius.

I'm going to have to learn a bit more about the IMA and its idle-stop capabilities.

If someone has a link to a good explanation, please let me know.

 

couldn't agree more.. but prius is the one to pick if MPG is the primary concern. i still like my civic more tho. i would've got an insight if it was available a year earlier.

 

Not that this is too relevant as we are comparing cars as they come from the factory, but the Prius handling can be dramatically improved with fairly simple add ons. I had a Hymotion pack installed in my 09 Prius and at the same time had better shocks installed along with a stiffening plate. I also replaced the OE tires with Michelin Radial X's. The handling was transformed - from kind of a detached floaty feeling that you all are aware of, to a car that is pretty tight and handles the curves pretty well. The Insight is being given a lot of postive press versus the Gen II Prius based on driving feel and handling alone. Perhaps Toyota will make a note of this and spend a few extra dollars of better OE suspension products. I know the Touring model is suppoed to meet this need, but the 09 Touring model I test drove just felt like a really stiff Prius.

By the way - nice thread.

 

so it works just like the civic hybrid (well.. both are hondas). when i stop on an incline, the engine will shut off. if i dont apply enough pressure on the brake, my car will roll back. this is IMO the biggest issue of honda's IMA. they should add something like "hill start assist".. did honda improve this on the insight? have it happened to u yet?