Prius Misconceptions...

Borrowing from another thread I started, here's how an answer came to me about the plug issue. I described the Prius to my dentist, who was highly impressed because of his great education (same high school as me). Then I could see the question form and trickle out. "But how does it...do you have to plug it in?"

Somehow a new answer came to me then. I just said, "Well, how do you charge the battery in your car? It's like that." I went on to say that I can also avoid wasting energy when I brake.

He was convinced. Like many other potential buyers I've talked to, he's on a different kind of waiting list. It's for the car you buy when you're not paying for college anymore.

 

I'm also under the impression that some folks are envious of Prius drivers, so they come up with that garbage to feel better about themselves.

Especially the comment about their (Insert vehicle brand) that gets "just as good" fuel economy. When you produce gas station receipts to prove the Prius fuel economy, then ask them to do the same, they quickly walk away.

Hey, not our fault they drive something that gets under 16 MPG.

 

"wait, wait, wait. So I DON'T have to hand crank it while it's plugged in? Whodathunkit?"

You mean that plastic covered hole in the front bumper isn't where the crank goes?

 

I so envy you.

I'm in So. Cal too. I looked into photovoltaic panels about 15 years ago but couldn't afford it. I would so love to put panels across my entire roof. My house is situated perfectly and the roof angle is perfect as well. Much steeper than the average ranch. But I wasn't clear on where the batteries would go and how the "switch" would be. I would still want to be on SDGEs grid for times when I didn't generate enough power.

And I thought I could put solar water on the bedroom roof too to cut my gas bill. Either that or go with an on demand tank. It's just me so there isn't a huge demand for hot water.

How much is it costing you and how much are you putting in?

 

We're hippies, I guess

So I stop at the little league field to drop off my son's
fielding mitt...Mom will be along in a minute to drop him
off from the Prius.

I gave the mitt to another Dad and told him that Mom
would be along in a minute in a Silver hybrid..."looks like
a moon car, I said", (trying to be amiable).

He let me get about 10 feet back to my car, and then
yelled "Hey, what are you, stuck in the 60s?"

"No no", I said. "Just stuck on 21st century technology".

 

If it's the same engine then wouldn't we be able to get close to the same gas mileage from the Prius ICE alone as the Echo?

 

I had someone ask me if I liked my car. He then said that he had heard that hybrids aren't as efficient as they were reported to be. I didn't have time to go into a detailed explanation since I was stepping off the elevator, leaving him behind. As the doors were closing I just said that I was getting over 50mpg, and I'd say that was pretty efficient.

 

isnt that the same engine as the echo?? i think the echo is about the same size but uses the otto cycle instead of atkinson cycle??? oh oh i may have stepped in it. help me dan or john or doc fusco !!! :? :? :?

 

I know folks who own the Echo sedan and the Echo Hatchback. It's a fine car and I had thought of getting one.

However, I consistently get 10 MPG more that the folks who drive Echo's, at least in city driving. I don't know of anybody with an Echo who is getting *better* fuel economy than a Prius, despite their much less weight.

One thing to keep in mind is the HP and torque ratings of the Echo motor and the Prius ICE motor:

Echo Sedan/Hatchback: 1.5 litre 1NZ-FE; 108 HP, 105 lb ft torque

Prius: 1.5 litre 1NZ-FXE; 76 HP, 82 lb ft of torque.

The Prius motor is significantly detuned compared to the Echo motor. I'm throwing out a WAG this has to do with the "modified" Atkinson cycle they're using.

Instead of a supercharger, the electric motor is used to provide the assist when accelerating and if needed to maintain steady speed. Otherwise the motor would seem so gutless you probably wouldn't want to drive it.

As far as fuel economy, Transport Canada rates the Echo Hatchback with 4 spd automatic at 40 MPG city, 51 MPG highway. The Prius is rated 71 MPG city, 67 MPG highway. Yes, they are using Imperial gallons.

 

I'm increasingly asked, "Can we see your car?!" - meaning tell use more about your Prius.

Lifting the hood and pointing to the easy access to serviceables (windshield washer fluid, oil filler, brake fluid, radiator, air filter, fuses, oil dip stick) always responds with a "Gee whiz, easy!" I point out the ICE and electric motors.

I usually open the liftback and point out the standard and NimH batteries and state that I normally carry my Trek 5200 bicycle in the back. The response is "Gee, so much room!"

I then have them sit down in the front passenger seat and turn on the vehicle, pointing out there are no keys, no smog checks, showing the current mpg read out, no idling when stopped, great sound system with 6-CD changer, two glove compartments, two 12 volt ports, the center console and 4 cup holders.

If their curiosity and enthusiasm is piqued, then it's a drive around the block. The comment, always at a stop sign is, "It's actually off!"

People always leave as converted and enthusiastic. I've met people once, then encountered them a few days later in a parking lot. They drag they spouse over, "Honey! Here is the car I was telling you about!"

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva\";p=\"83524)</div>

Our 4.9 kW system will cost $41,000 (that's for about 500 sq. ft. of panels). Subtracting the California rebate, the net cost will be about $28,000. And then there's a California tax deduction (or possibly a credit) of a couple thousand in the first year. Taking financing costs into account and assuming zero increase in electricity rates, I figure the system will save enough on electric bills to offset the financing cost in about 7 years in our case. But the system will not have paid for itself for another 20 years (again, assuming no increase in electricity rates). So I don't think you do this for personal economic benefit as much as you do for environmental friendliness.

You asked about batteries. Our system will not have batteries; instead, we will be connected to the grid. When producing more than we currently need, the meter will spin backwards. We will enter into a annual "net metering" agreement with Edison. We start the agreement on, say September 1 2005. Throughout the year we're paying according to the meter reading--just like always. With the meter spinning backwards for part of that time, the monthly bills will be an average of about $13 per month. If, however, we have generated more electricity than we used over the course of the entire year, Edison does _not_ send us a check; that would be our donation to them, and we would start at zero on September 1, 2006.

So you want to size the system so that it doesn't produce too much--unless you are more generous and/or affluent than I. A battery system, on the other hand, allows you to go off-grid completely, but it adds about 50% to the cost, which might be worth it if you were in a rural area far removed from existing lines.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jayman\";p=\"83683)</div>

I know folks who own the Echo sedan and the Echo Hatchback. It's a fine car and I had thought of getting one.

However, I consistently get 10 MPG more that the folks who drive Echo's, at least in city driving. I don't know of anybody with an Echo who is getting *better* fuel economy than a Prius, despite their much less weight.

One thing to keep in mind is the HP and torque ratings of the Echo motor and the Prius ICE motor:

Echo Sedan/Hatchback: 1.5 litre 1NZ-FE; 108 HP, 105 lb ft torque

Prius: 1.5 litre 1NZ-FXE; 76 HP, 82 lb ft of torque.

The Prius motor is significantly detuned compared to the Echo motor. I'm throwing out a WAG this has to do with the "modified" Atkinson cycle they're using.

Instead of a supercharger, the electric motor is used to provide the assist when accelerating and if needed to maintain steady speed. Otherwise the motor would seem so gutless you probably wouldn't want to drive it.

As far as fuel economy, Transport Canada rates the Echo Hatchback with 4 spd automatic at 40 MPG city, 51 MPG highway. The Prius is rated 71 MPG city, 67 MPG highway. Yes, they are using Imperial gallons.[/b][/quote]

Not a WAG at all you hit it on the head. Same engine different operation cycle for the engine. The Atkinson cycle has been around since the late 1800's and it's big problem is lack of torque especially when it is operating outside its optimal RPM. If you put the Prius ICE into the Echo no one would want to drive it. The MG2 provides the second part of the hybrid system to create a functional whole and that is the low end torque.
The Prius ICE is more efficient and gets more usable power out of a gallon of gas.

 

Strangest question was, "What happens when the battery on your key runs down? How will you start your car?"

 

I think there's a fundamental problem calling these cars "hybrids." People think...

hybrid = electric car + gas car

But this car doesn't run on electricity! All the power comes from the gasoline. The electric motor, battery, regen brakes, etc. are all there to eek out the best possible use of the power available from the gasoline.

What we have here is "Intelligent Power Management." If it were marketed as such, then maybe people wouldn't get the misconception that you have to plug it in, or make other compromises. It would also help people understand that whether the power comes from gasoline, diesel, biodiesel, ethanol, solar, hydrogren--or plutonium for that matter--we need to manage what power we have as smartly as possible. If 10 years down the road hydrogen fuel cells take off, those cars will still have Prius technology in them to make the most of that expensive, high-tech fuel.

Gary

 

It was a very hot summer day and I was sitting at an intersection with a friend in the car when the ICE turned off. My friend suddenly turned to me and said, "Your car just died". I just looked at her and smiled and reminded her it was a hybrid and that the engine was still running, just not the gas engine. She started laughing and told me she "forgot it was a hybrid".

I was showing my car to another friend and explaining how the car's computer decides when to run the gas and/or electric. She then asked, completely sincerely, if could be set to steer itself on the freeway!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(seeh2o\";p=\"83912)</div>

Quite plausable, with the electric power steering assist. The automated parking system in Japan proves it. Only problem is having the car "see" the road.

 

Hybrids Hard On Tires

A new one this week: Hybrids, and Prius especially, are hard on tires. How so? I asked. Response: Whenever there is a transition between the ICE and electric, the tires scuff, and hence wear out faster.

Amazing how folks who have no concept of a CVT perpetuate urban myths. I'm still on the OEM tires with no scuff marks and minimal wear.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(skruse\";p=\"84119)</div>

Wow, that's a good one! And we can't even FEEL all that energy while driving. Those poor tires must be soaking it all up and not transferring ANY of it into forward motion... Tongue in cheek, of course

Gary

 

Wow, that's a good one! And we can't even FEEL all that energy while driving. Those poor tires must be soaking it all up and not transferring ANY of it into forward motion... Tongue in cheek, of course

Gary[/b][/quote]<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hdrygas\";p=\"83710)</div>

I know folks who own the Echo sedan and the Echo Hatchback. It's a fine car and I had thought of getting one.

However, I consistently get 10 MPG more that the folks who drive Echo's, at least in city driving. I don't know of anybody with an Echo who is getting *better* fuel economy than a Prius, despite their much less weight.

One thing to keep in mind is the HP and torque ratings of the Echo motor and the Prius ICE motor:

Echo Sedan/Hatchback: 1.5 litre 1NZ-FE; 108 HP, 105 lb ft torque

Prius: 1.5 litre 1NZ-FXE; 76 HP, 82 lb ft of torque.

The Prius motor is significantly detuned compared to the Echo motor. I'm throwing out a WAG this has to do with the "modified" Atkinson cycle they're using.

Instead of a supercharger, the electric motor is used to provide the assist when accelerating and if needed to maintain steady speed. Otherwise the motor would seem so gutless you probably wouldn't want to drive it.

As far as fuel economy, Transport Canada rates the Echo Hatchback with 4 spd automatic at 40 MPG city, 51 MPG highway. The Prius is rated 71 MPG city, 67 MPG highway. Yes, they are using Imperial gallons.[/b][/quote]

Not a WAG at all you hit it on the head. Same engine different operation cycle for the engine. The Atkinson cycle has been around since the late 1800's and it's big problem is lack of torque especially when it is operating outside its optimal RPM. If you put the Prius ICE into the Echo no one would want to drive it. The MG2 provides the second part of the hybrid system to create a functional whole and that is the low end torque.
The Prius ICE is more efficient and gets more usable power out of a gallon of gas.
[/b][/quote]


I've come across a lot of information on the web about the Atkinson cycle...and most of what I've seen, including a very interesting animation, has nothing to do with the engine under our hoods. The linkages and eccentrics seen in this particular animation are, as you suggest, very late-1800s...nothing that could get cobbled together inside the block and head of an Echo engine.

Noted Prius resource Graham Davies has a lot to say about this particular form of the ICE and his thought that what's under our hoods is really an engine with the Miller cycle.

http://home.earthlink.net/~graham1/MyToyot...lCombustion.htm